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3 months ago ::
Feb 17, 2013 - 1:36PM
#191
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Date Joined:
Apr 20, 2012
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I'm still trying to figure out what a quadradic wizard is. Sounds like it could be a geometremancer? lol...Seriously, I have no idea.
Essentially the WIzard's power in 3 and 3.5(idk about befor ethat 100%) was quadratic.
Because not only did the Wizard gain access to more spells as he leveled and get more spell slots, all the spells themselves also got stronger. For example. Any exact numbers are pure guesswork and only for the sake of example.
At level 1, you might have 3 spell slots. A level 1 Fireball might do an average of 25 damage.(3 Fireballs for 25 damage=75 damage)
At level 5, the Wizard might have 7 spell slots. A Fireball spell at that level might do 40 damage.(7 FIreballs for 40 damage=280 damage)
At level 10, the Wizard might have 12 spell slots. A Fireball at that level might do 70 damage.(12 Fireballs for 70 damage=840)
That's only if you're going for pure damage though, which was always the weakest option for Wizards.
By that logic Warrior types do infinite damage as they can hack at people with swords or whatever as long as they want to. Increasing spell slots just lets Wizards do their thing for longer than otherwise.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 17, 2013 - 1:40PM
#192
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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I'm still trying to figure out what a quadradic wizard is. Sounds like it could be a geometremancer? lol...Seriously, I have no idea.
Essentially the WIzard's power in 3 and 3.5(idk about befor ethat 100%) was quadratic.
Because not only did the Wizard gain access to more spells as he leveled and get more spell slots, all the spells themselves also got stronger. For example. Any exact numbers are pure guesswork and only for the sake of example.
At level 1, you might have 3 spell slots. A level 1 Fireball might do an average of 25 damage.(3 Fireballs for 25 damage=75 damage)
At level 5, the Wizard might have 7 spell slots. A Fireball spell at that level might do 40 damage.(7 FIreballs for 40 damage=280 damage)
At level 10, the Wizard might have 12 spell slots. A Fireball at that level might do 70 damage.(12 Fireballs for 70 damage=840)
That's only if you're going for pure damage though, which was always the weakest option for Wizards.
By that logic Warrior types do infinite damage as they can hack at people with swords or whatever as long as they want to. Increasing spell slots just lets Wizards do their thing for longer than otherwise.
How does my logic work like that?
And Fighters hacking at people all day long if they are literally hacking at people all day long. They stop when the rest of the party does, typically when the casters run out of spell slots. Or they stop when their HP gets low. So no, they can't hack at pople all day.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 17, 2013 - 1:50PM
#193
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Date Joined:
Apr 20, 2012
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And Fighters hacking at people all day long if they are literally hacking at people all day long. They stop when the rest of the party does, typically when the casters run out of spell slots. Or they stop when their HP gets low. So no, they can't hack at pople all day.
My point was that there's no point in calculating the total damage output Wizards can do during a day. A reasonable comparison would be about how much damage they realistically can do in a round and to how many targets. And then consider how many times they can do it in a day to consider if it's balanced or not.
Really, direct damage was pretty suboptimal in 3.x, it was fun to do if the party wasn't particularly powerful and they needed more damage output, but if you had some properly built melee characters it was just plain crap. You could do much less damage per round than melee characters unless you were facing a swarm of critters, and only a limited number of times per day. Save or sucks were the real thing that made Wizards broken, not damage.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 17, 2013 - 3:29PM
#194
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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And Fighters hacking at people all day long if they are literally hacking at people all day long. They stop when the rest of the party does, typically when the casters run out of spell slots. Or they stop when their HP gets low. So no, they can't hack at pople all day.
My point was that there's no point in calculating the total damage output Wizards can do during a day. A reasonable comparison would be about how much damage they realistically can do in a round and to how many targets. And then consider how many times they can do it in a day to consider if it's balanced or not.
Really, direct damage was pretty suboptimal in 3.x, it was fun to do if the party wasn't particularly powerful and they needed more damage output, but if you had some properly built melee characters it was just plain crap. You could do much less damage per round than melee characters unless you were facing a swarm of critters, and only a limited number of times per day. Save or sucks were the real thing that made Wizards broken, not damage.
Wizards were broken by timestops, instantaneous spells, and multiple ways to create immunities. As long as wizards can escape time itself they are unlimited.
I've shown numerous times that simply increasing spell slots and the power of spell slots does not necessarily create a wizard that grows exponentially in power.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 17, 2013 - 3:35PM
#195
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Date Joined:
Apr 20, 2012
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Wizards were broken by timestops, instantaneous spells, and multiple ways to create immunities. As long as wizards can escape time itself they are unlimited.
I've shown numerous times that simply increasing spell slots and the power of spell slots does not necessarily create a wizard that grows exponentially in power.
Yeah, I agree completely. IMHO, in 3.x, with the increase of hit points from 2E they should have made Fireball and other lower level direct damage spells scale up to 15D6 or so, then they would have been decent with metamagic even at level 10+. The various save or sucks were way too powerful, obviously and should have been nerfed in 3.5. Instead they proceeded to nerf Horrid Wilting to D6s instead of D8s (about 22% reduction in damage) and do nothing to save or sucks.
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