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4 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 8:10PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2007
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I rolled up a cleric and grabbed the Heal skill right away, believing that its usefulness was a forgone conclusion. I couldn't have been more wrong. The brief description read: Heal: Apply first aid or treat illness or poison The Heal skill itself reinforced these myths: You can use Heal to apply first aid to a wounded character or treat someone who's affected by illness or poison.Upon a closer inspection of the rules, I find virtually no use for it. The Heal skill does scant little. The Healer's Kit (included automatically in every Adventurer's Kit) does it all.
- A standard action with the Healer's Kit automatically stabilizes a fallen comrade.
- One use of the Healer's Kit allows 10 characters to spend any number of healing Hit Dice.
- The Healer's Kit grants advantage on all Heal skill checks made to heal, of which there are none!
Seriously, I went looking. After scouring through the 'DM Guidelines' PDF, I found zero DCs for the Heal skill. At best, the Heal skill can be used as a kind of pseudo-Knowledge skill when the area of study pertains to humanoid biology. Unless the Heal skill becomes more integral to the game, take something else, like Listen or Spot. You won't have to heal quite so much after battle if you can get a bead on the enemy beforehand.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 8:22PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2004
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Check out the beastiary. You'll see thing like diseases and poisons listed under monsters. Those would be the DC's you are looking for.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 9:23PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2007
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Thanks electgraystone, that's a good point. I checked it out, but at first blush, the Heal skill isn't mentioned anywhere.
I looked at what I thought would be the obvious places, such as the Lycanthrope, Mummy, and Vampire, but nothing. Perhaps those illnesses are considered more magical in nature -- as curses go -- and so require magical solutions to cure.
Then I checked out the Carrion Crawler and Giant Centipede. They, like every other creature that deals poison damage, have Constitution saves for the player, but nothing that stands out for the Heal skill to cure.
Sure, I can 'imagine' that my Cleric could make a Heal check on a poisoned player using the same Constitution DC that got them poisoned in the first place, but this really needs to be spelled out.
Right now, the 2nd level Lesser Restoration spell can neutralize poison, remove disease, and remove paralysis. Are we to assume the Heal skill can do all of those things as well?
With the Hezrou and Troglodyte, could I Heal myself to be immune to their stench abilities? If so, for how long?
Same goes for the Vrock and their spores. That ability actually spells out needing the Bless spell or Neutralize Poison version of Lesser Restoration to cure the lingering effect. Wouldn't the heal skill be mentioned at that point if there was a practical application?
With the Aranea, Imp, Green Dragon, Giant Lizard, Lizardfolk, Medusa, Otyugh, Giant Snake, Giant Spider, Wyvern, and Yuan-ti their poison deals damage immediately (with no lingering effects). Can I heal all of their poison damage away afterwards with a Heal check? Or does the poison simply burn me like acid?
The Amphisbaena Snake, Pit Fiend, and Spirt Naga actually make reference to 'neutralizing' their poison, but without describing the mechanics for doing so. The Lesser Restoration spell could definitely handle the job, but the Heal skill? That would be great if it could, but needs to be clearly outlined somewhere.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 9:36PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2004
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I assume that you use your heal check in place of the con DC. Since there is VERY little to go on, I looked to 3e/4e to see how the heal skill worked. 3e is:
Treat Poison
To treat poison means to tend a single character who has been poisoned and who is going to take more damage from the poison (or suffer some other effect). Every time the poisoned character makes a saving throw against the poison, you make a Heal check. The poisoned character uses your check result or his or her saving throw, whichever is higher. Treat DiseaseTo treat a disease means to tend a single diseased character. Every time he or she makes a saving throw against disease effects, you make a Heal check. The diseased character uses your check result or his or her saving throw, whichever is higher.
4e is:
Treat Disease: Make a Heal check to treat a subject infected by a disease. Rather than taking a particular action, you must attend the subject periodically throughout an extended rest taken by the subject and make a Heal check when the rest ends. You can take an extended rest at the same time. The check result determines the disease's effects if the result is higher than the result of the Endurance check (or other check) that the subject makes against the disease.
So to me, it seems like you'd just make a roll and let the target pick their save or your heal roll.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 09, 2013 - 11:31PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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What you have to keep in mind is that no matter whan the Heal skill does, it must be something that can be done without the Heal skill.
Skill in 5e are not the primary means of interaction with the game, that is the abilty check. Skills are small bonuses to those checks.
So it can't have a major 'you need the Heal skill to do this' role. It can only be an additional bonus on rolls.
This greatly limits what it can do.
Carl
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4 months ago ::
Feb 10, 2013 - 12:05AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2012
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I recently had a player use Heal to stabilize a dying ally just before death. I used DC 15 like it used to be. Right now a lot of the skills don't have a lot of defined DCs.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 10, 2013 - 12:23AM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2012
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I'd like to see a more detailed skill section in the next play-test. I'm hoping for a return to the 4th edition degree of success based on your roll.
Monk and Barbarian Versus 4 Bandits
kira3696.tripod.com
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4 months ago ::
Feb 10, 2013 - 2:26AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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I'd like skills to play a more prominent role, myself. I want those choices to be meaningful. I understand the desire to make them optional as well but I've only seen one person some out and say they specifically didn't want to use skills.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 10, 2013 - 5:52AM
#9
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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That's because the folks who post to forums are skewed heavily in favor of those willing to employ advanced modules. The folks who want a basic game to be played in an afternoon are also not the people who are generally going to post to forums.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 10, 2013 - 6:23AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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That's because the folks who post to forums are skewed heavily in favor of those willing to employ advanced modules. The folks who want a basic game to be played in an afternoon are also not the people who are generally going to post to forums.
I categorically disagree with you. You could be right, but we have absolutely no way of backing a statement like that up one way or another. I'd point out that a lot of folks have time to post on a forum but don't have time to play a game of D&D for hours on end.
One does not indicate the other.
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