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4 months ago ::
Feb 11, 2013 - 7:53PM
#21
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Both comments I was responding to say it won't work, actually. Just because it is stated correctly earlier in the thread that it does work that way doesn't mean it magically shouldn't be corrected. Wrong is wrong. I read the thread, I know what the OP thinks. This isn't even my first response, the other one just got ORCed because I pointed out that people who ask experts questions and then argue with them will be going to a very special place when they pass on.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 11, 2013 - 7:54PM
#22
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Both comments I was responding to say it won't work, actually. Just because it is stated correctly earlier in the thread that it does work that way doesn't mean it magically shouldn't be corrected. Wrong is wrong. I read the thread, I know what the OP thinks. This isn't even my first response, the other one just got ORCed because I pointed out that people who ask experts questions and then argue with them will be going to a very special place when they pass on.
No argument about correcting later wrongs, and sorry, I didn't see your earlier response because it's not there now.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 12, 2013 - 3:08PM
#23
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The way I read the feat and the what I believe is the intent of said feat is to make the spell caster very much like a dual wielding warrior. With a weapon in each hand he/she is trying to inflict maximum damage.
I do not believe that a tome bearer would ever be considered as part of the DIS since the caster is not actually wielding the implement. Would this idea work with a orb and a tome bearer? No. The staff is being treated differently since it CAN be wielded in both hands AS A WEAPON not as a implement.
So only one of your hands is wielding an implement, the other is holding part of the staff to make use of it as a weapon, the tome bearer is simply holding an implement you have access to, but not in the DiS sense.
That's how I see it anyway.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 12, 2013 - 7:17PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2012
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The way I read the feat and the what I believe is the intent of said feat is to make the spell caster very much like a dual wielding warrior. With a weapon in each hand he/she is trying to inflict maximum damage.
Except that this isn't the way dual wielding works in 4e. You can hold a [1h] weapon in each hand all you want, and you can attack with either. But unless you have something that says you attack with both weapons, you don't, and they don't add damage to the other one.
I do not believe that a tome bearer would ever be considered as part of the DIS since the caster is not actually wielding the implement. Would this idea work with a orb and a tome bearer? No. The staff is being treated differently since it CAN be wielded in both hands AS A WEAPON not as a implement.
What does that have to do with anything?
So only one of your hands is wielding an implement, the other is holding part of the staff to make use of it as a weapon, the tome bearer is simply holding an implement you have access to, but not in the DiS sense.
That's how I see it anyway.
The Tome Bearer is obviously not "your off hand." If you don't have Staff Fighting, then you can hold the staff in each hand all you want, but you don't have multiple implements. If you do have Staff Fighting, then the rules say that a double weapon counts as two weapons, both of which are the staff, and thus both valid for DIS.
Incidentally, the weapon/implement thing shows up all over the place, especially for sorcerers, who have two weapon types as their native implements.. Things such as Weapon of Speed's minor RBA work because it is both a weapon and an implement (so do all of the Dragonshards, which is why damaging wizards all use staffs, unless they get some other weapliment).
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4 months ago ::
Feb 13, 2013 - 12:07PM
#25
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Still new to this forum so I am unfamiliar with doing multiple quotes.
" Except that this isn't the way dual wielding works in 4e. You can hold a [1h] weapon in each hand all you want, and you can attack with either. But unless you have something that says you attack with both weapons, you don't, and they don't add damage to the other one."
I wasn't refereing to being bale to attack with both weapons, I was talking about flavor. A dual wielding warrior is choosing to forego protection from a shield and control from having a free hand in order to hold more weapons. Same principle with DIS, althought the shield part doesnt apply.
" What does that have to do with anything?"
I was addressing the OP's question, in which he asked if his quarter staff is considered his offhand, when he casts throught the tome his familliar is carrying. I was trying to illustrate that a staff is not considered the off hand since while yes he may be using both hands to hold it, only 1 hand is holding a implement. And thus there is no off hand implement since he is wielding it (the implement) only in one hand.
I have not read anything on sorcerers yet so I do not know what rules may have been added (or given more detail) with respect to a weapon becoming an implement. But in my opinion the tome bearing familiar and DiS cannot be used in the way the OP is suggesting.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 13, 2013 - 7:49PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2009
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I was addressing the OP's question, in which he asked if his quarter staff is considered his offhand, when he casts throught the tome his familliar is carrying. I was trying to illustrate that a staff is not considered the off hand since while yes he may be using both hands to hold it, only 1 hand is holding a implement. And thus there is no off hand implement since he is wielding it (the implement) only in one hand.
Now it makes sense! Thanks.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 14, 2013 - 12:19AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2012
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I have not read anything on sorcerers yet so I do not know what rules may have been added (or given more detail) with respect to a weapon becoming an implement. But in my opinion the tome bearing familiar and DiS cannot be used in the way the OP is suggesting.
Nothing specific to sorcerors; it's just that they natively get staffs and daggers as implements. Since they are also weapons, things like Eberron Dragonshards can be used with them (have to be attached to a weapon), and they can have weapon enchantments (for example, Weapon of Speed, which works on daggers, and gives you a minor action encounter power to make a ranged basic attack "with this weapon").
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