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Since 2000 I have more or less been a big fan of d20. However recently I have been eyeing up 2nd ed as a serious contender for our groups primary version of D&D. As a general rue I have found somehting I like in every edition of D&D and when I am playing 3.XYZ there is alot I miss from 2nd ed and 4th ed in it. Its one reason I'm not to woried about how the playtest is turing out. I'll either like the final product and buy it or pass on it and keep playing whatever. I do not regard myself as a hard core holdout as I have moved from BECM to AD&D to d20 D&D and it was not until 4th ed came out Ipassed on a new D&D edition for various reasons that are pointless to go over yet again.

 While I enjoy options and 3rd ed and d20 in general is very liberal with them it does create problems as well. Both in terms of balance (high level PF/3.5) and in complexity. My players like d20 based D&D although they also like 2nd ed after I ran it for a couple of session. I do not really enjoy running 3rd ed that much anymore as I have more or less been the eternal DM. In fact I have hardly played 3rd ed at all and I missed out on playing 4th ed. 13 years of power attack, rapid shot and CoDzilla have kind of burned me out.

 And this is the appeal of older editions of the game specifically 2nd ed as I fine 1st and BECM lacking options. I liked them once upon a time but nowdays not so much. 2nd ed reigns in the abundence of players options 3rd and 4th ed had but with ts splats it still gives them an abundent range of options to choose from up to and including building their own class or modifying an existing one. It is kind of refreshing even a basic change like taking away magic item creation from players can make along with WBL guidelines and assumptions 3rd and 4th ed had.

 2nd ed also lends itself well to houserules. Level and racial restrictions, I don't use them and I buffed humans to compensate. Low magic I can do with default rules as PCs cannot create magic items until higher level. High magic also works. The classes are also better balanced than in 3rd ed but without having to resort 4th ed system and I will be more lenient with 2nd eds options for the non spellcasters. THACO and saves I prefer 3rd and 4th eds BAB/saves/defenses but I can work with them.

 The game is simpler, mechanically it is a bit messy but I like running it as the DM and the players seem happy to play it. After playing PF again on Sunday and spending hours rewriting it I have decided to go back to the future and 2nd ed using elements of 3rd ed via some of the players option books is where I want to be in regards to D&D. Burnt out on 3rd ed, not enthused about 4th and it is easier to houserule 2nd ed than try and fix 3.XYZ.

 In 2008 I was not ready to move on from 3rd ed. Now I am and depending on where D&DN goes I could be a very keen customer. I want the complexity of a late era 2nd ed game with some of the innovations from 3rd ed and some of the balance from 4th ed without the unified power structure of 4th. I have already commited to buying the core rules for D&DN, beyond that the fate of D&D for me is in Mikes hands and anyone reading this thread and playtesting the game. I want that pre d20 feel of the game with modern mechanics. Skills and feats I can live with but I do not want them used like they were in 3rd and 4th ed- to many, feat taxes, glut of useless feats, band aids on various concepts.

 Less feats, less classes, less races, more gaming and adventures please. 

I like the complexity of 3.5 myself, but also love the At-Will/Encounter stylings of 4th Ed and the Skills & Powers Point buy/Stat breakdown of 2nd Ed (Con has a purpose other that HPs!  Who knew?).  I'd love to see a D&D Gish Ed.  I'm pretty sure WotC would never make such a thing, and fear any fan made version would just get tossed on the scrapheap of "another D&D clone" (assuming it even got past the legal hurdles).

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about core 3.5? I know that 3E/Pathfinder gets really complicated as you add more and more options, but when you only have the core races/classes - it's really not so bad. You still have the benefits of the unified d20 mechanic, instead of disparate sub-systems in AD&D, which goes a long way.

Feb 7, 2013 -- 12:44PM, Zardnaar wrote:

13 years of power attack, rapid shot and CoDzilla have kind of burned me out.

I'm sorry for your pain and boredom. 
It seems you had some bad luck with 3ed, that's all.

13 years of 3ed here too and I've seen all sorts of interesting class/build choices from my players.
Only once or twice did someone take Rapid Shot that I can remember.
Power Attack was kind of a favorite, yeah, but mostly I saw people getting it to reach Cleave. I don't think they used the PA itself that much (guess my players prefered to have more guaranteed hits).
Very rarely did someone play a Cleric, and I don't think anyone in my groups has ever played a druid.  I even buffed the druid a little at one time to see if it would appeal to anyone but... no.

I think Rogues and Fighters were the absolute favorites, but those classes in 3ed offer so much diversity that seldom one looked like the other.
In our current group I have a fighter going for the more standard offensive/cleave build with greataxe, and another focusing on defensive abilities + disarm + a bit of mounted combat.
There's also a Barb going for a Bull Rush build and a few other maneuvers.

Oh, we also have a wizard who's addicted to fear spells, and a rogue who's investing practically everything in skills, and usually runs away and hides at the first sight of a tough fight. lol

complexity of a late era 2nd ed game with some of the innovations from 3rd ed

You should really, really have a look at Myth & Magic.
It's a 2ed remake with little bits of 3ed.
Just bits, like higher = better instead of neg. THAC0 and AC, stuff like that.
A few combat options they included as Weapon Proficiencies as well, but it's not like feats at all.


The book is really well done, and it retains all that "feel" of AD&D.

Here's the Starter Guide which you can download for free!!
www.rpgnow.com/product/100492/Myth-%26-M...

It has practically al the rules, except it only has the 4 basic classes and goes only till level 10.
But gives you all you need to know about the conversion of this "2.5".
The complete book is also for sale on that site.

Zardnaar, First of all hello fellow D.F.er. Now then. I am in the same boat with you bro. I like 3.75 I.E. P..but by and large prefer AD&D and Ill play either 1st or 2nd edition dependent on what others dig. I have a weekly to by weekly AD&D game as well as two I play in and a P.F. game I run as a mini series for as new school fix. My heart is in old school Advanced Dungeons and Dragons which is why I am most excited about the reprints rather than what I have seen in Next. Ya Mearls is holding the games future in his hands which to me is like giving ther keys to the kingdom to Mr. Magoo. I try to keep my hopes high and expectations low for Next realizing that I will always play AD&D no matter what else ends up becoming the Next flash in the pan. man I miss TSR. Will I buy Next? After what Iv'e seen so far not likely. Will i continue buying reprints? You bet. My honest advice: Play what you like.
mearls might hold the future but the past is secure my brother, Make the past your present.