Community

So the other night during a game session our Halfling rogue was getting attacked by hobgoblin and when I rolled the attack the hobgoblin missed by 1. She said out loud "Thank goodness for two-weapon defense!"

There was a brief pause and then three of us almost said at once "but you only have ranged weapons in both hands?" Sure enough she had a sling in one hand and a dart in the other.

To our shock based on the current rules her defense was +1 as long as she had two weapons in each hand that she was proficient with. We really assumed that at least one of them would have to be a melee weapon.
So we let the two weapon defense stand but it seemed a bit off to most of us. AKA if you held two darts or any two small ranged weapons you can think of and you had the feat two weapon defense you'd gain the +1 to AC. 

Well, I guess you could say she used the sling to tie up the weapon mid-swing, but two darts wouldn't make much sense.

It should only apply to melee weapons.  Maybe it was overlooked because two-weapon fighting is a melee only action.

i like it applying to ranged weapons. it allows more flavour.

I would be OK if one of the weapons was a ranged weapon but getting two weapon defense from holding two small range weapons seems silly.

I totally get the flavor part, like a whip and sling or a dart and a dagger but I see it more as incredulous when its two slings or a hand crossbow and a dart

Feb 6, 2013 -- 5:52PM, dbmoore wrote:

I would be OK if one of the weapons was a ranged weapon but getting two weapon defense from holding two small range weapons seems silly.

I totally get the flavor part, like a whip and sling or a dart and a dagger but I see it more as incredulous when its two slings or a hand crossbow and a dart

you cant see somebody deflecting weapons with two darts? or using two slings to whip around their weapon?

In a parody movie or an overly campy karate movie sure but otherwise no it just seems a bit much

Feb 7, 2013 -- 5:31AM, dbmoore wrote:

In a parody movie or an overly campy karate movie sure but otherwise no it just seems a bit much

you realise combat darts are about 2feet long with 1 foot points right?

Actually they were at most 2 feet long they ranged in size from just under 1 foot to at most 2 feet and the shaft was slightly flexible unlike a javelin. So it’s not impossible to block with those type of items but again seems to be a stretch on consistent plausibility.

Feb 8, 2013 -- 7:34AM, dbmoore wrote:

Actually they were at most 2 feet long they ranged in size from just under 1 foot to at most 2 feet and the shaft was slightly flexible unlike a javelin. So it’s not impossible to block with those type of items but again seems to be a stretch on consistent plausibility.

thats what i meant

i still think its quite easy to parry with two 1 foot spikes

Well, lets see.

Two weapon defense requires 2 different weapons (assuming the 12/17/12 packet).    So, two darts wouldn't work.

But, a sling and a dagger WOULD work.  If she  isn't using the offhand weapon to attack, it seems she's doing it only for style points -- since there seems to be no mechanical benefit.   So, personally, I'd leave it as "Min-maxing for style", and leave it alone.  But, if it bothers you, tell her the dart won't last a long time as a blocking implement, and after every battle, it's range is 1/2ed.   Then, she switches to daggers, and everyone's okay. 

BTW, a quick note:  Reading the forums, at least one person argues that TWD should be read as "two different weapons" (RAW) instead of what I thought "two different weapon types" (RAI, or at least, according to me!).   So, my first point would be then moot -- though, WOW, if that's the RAI, we should really request they write that more clearly. 
 

Feb 12, 2013 -- 7:47PM, MeCorva wrote:

BTW, a quick note:  Reading the forums, at least one person argues that TWD should be read as "two different weapons" (RAW) instead of what I thought "two different weapon types" (RAI, or at least, according to me!).   So, my first point would be then moot -- though, WOW, if that's the RAI, we should really request they write that more clearly. 
 

I think the intent of the rule is "two separate melee weapons."  And I would add "with which the character is proficient."  While a dart makes some sense as a parrying tool, as a melee weapon it is an improvised weapon (or was).  A sling isn't actually a weapon in its own right.  It is a launcher for bullets. 

I don't understand why the word "different" or even "separate" is even necessary. Why do they keep insisting on reinventing the wheel? Here's the feat from the 3E SRD:

Two-Weapon Defense
When wielding a double weapon or two weapons (not including natural weapons or unarmed strikes), you gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC.

Replace "shield bonus" with just "bonus" and that's all that needs to be done. The whole business about "wielding a different weapon in each hand" suggests that double weapons aren't included for some reason.

Feb 15, 2013 -- 2:59PM, Veggie-sama wrote:

Two-Weapon Defense
When wielding a double weapon or two weapons (not including natural weapons or unarmed strikes), you gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC. 

I with you up until the (not including natural weapons or unarmed strikes) part. Why would a whip, sling or an arrow be better than a claw, horns or a fist? Never made sense to me. The monk can punch a hole in a wall but can't deflect blows?

Don't ask me, I didn't write it. My guess is that monks were getting AC through class features, while beasts got heaps of natural armor, so a feat called "two-weapon defense" was a way to bump up ACs for only 2WF users. The other guys didn't need more.

Some of these threads are just baffling to me, the DM looks at her sheet and says "yeah that wouldn't work with a dart and a sling, how are you even firing your sling how are you loading it? Pick a different feat, you take 4 damage." ... the end.

Apr 22, 2013 -- 1:34PM, ThingOne wrote:

Some of these threads are just baffling to me, the DM looks at her sheet and says "yeah that wouldn't work with a dart and a sling, how are you even firing your sling how are you loading it? Pick a different feat, you take 4 damage." ... the end.

+1

Apr 22, 2013 -- 1:34PM, ThingOne wrote:

Some of these threads are just baffling to me, the DM looks at her sheet and says "yeah that wouldn't work with a dart and a sling, how are you even firing your sling how are you loading it? Pick a different feat, you take 4 damage." ... the end.

And now, you have one less player at your table because you're not willing to say 'yes'.

I mean, what's wrong with allowing it?

If we had a player sit down with us who didn't have a basic understanding of a sling and it's use, try to do something that isn't possible to do with said sling and then insist that he will take his ball and go home if we dont let him load and fire that sling with one hand, well good riddence. Now if we have a player who doesn't understand his weapon and can take criticism and adapt, well that kid is going to have a hell of a good time. "Oh I see well can I chuck a dagger with one hand and a dart with the other?"

Good luck loading a sling with one hand firing it with the another hand and chucking darts about with that third arm sir.