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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 11:07AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2010
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My question is: Is it normal for a groups defender to go down every fight at low level (level 1-5)? I am playing a paladin right now whose focus (as much focus as you can have at level 2) is on mass marking and radiant vulnerability stacking/punishment. He is working out very well. Deals pretty good mark punishment damage and can keep stuff away from the leader/ranged strikers without difficulty. However it always feels like I am always getting almost killed. Every fight I take at least 1.5-2x my total HP in damage, which would be about 50-70 damage (only have 35 HP). Is the leader just not doing their job or am I playing too recklessly?
My AC is 22 right now, so it's pretty good. All my other defenses aren't great but about as good as one could expect at this low level without a necklace/cape. My feets are draconic challenge (ay dragonborn paladin) and heavy blade expertise.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 11:28AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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That seems plausible. If you're mass-marking and making your mark very painful with radiant vulnerability, you're giving the monsters an incentive to gang up on you. I expect it's possible for you to find ways to balance this out through feats and power choices, and not making your mark any more painful, but see what help the other characters can provide to help kill monsters quickly or keep them off you.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 1:33PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2010
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That seems plausible. If you're mass-marking and making your mark very painful with radiant vulnerability, you're giving the monsters an incentive to gang up on you. I expect it's possible for you to find ways to balance this out through feats and power choices, and not making your mark any more painful, but see what help the other characters can provide to help kill monsters quickly or keep them off you.
So I guess one way to increase my survivability would be to stop marking stuff all the time (or at least when i start taking a beating) haha. Any other suggestions?
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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 1:36PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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So I guess one way to increase my survivability would be to stop marking stuff all the time (or at least when i start taking a beating) haha.
Well, how many attackers do you generally have on you at once, in an effort to avoid your mark penalty?
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 1:55PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2008
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That seems plausible. If you're mass-marking and making your mark very painful with radiant vulnerability, you're giving the monsters an incentive to gang up on you. I expect it's possible for you to find ways to balance this out through feats and power choices, and not making your mark any more painful, but see what help the other characters can provide to help kill monsters quickly or keep them off you.
So I guess one way to increase my survivability would be to stop marking stuff all the time (or at least when i start taking a beating) haha. Any other suggestions?
This can be a good tactic, you dont always have to mark. The others have HP and surges to spend as well so let them take some of the damage. If you dont mark then the monsters are more likely to break ranks and go after the squishies.
"The great epochs of our life come when we gain the courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 1:58PM
#6
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Talk to your DM. I've seen this in public play, and watched something similar happen with defender powers like "Dragon Fear" and "Come and Get It."
Defenders are not JUST bullet sponges. It's happened before that some DMs think that's how a defender works: "I defend! I get swarmed! I die!" That leads to a defender who, like you, can die very quickly, and leave the lest of the party un-defended.
Couldn't hurt to ask him if he thinks everything is actually going to respect your mark or not. Not everything will - or should. After all, part of what you do is punish. When you get mobbed, you're not punishing, you're just sponging, and not being allowed to do your job entirely like you could be able to.
As a DM, I find it easier to just punish the players no matter what they pick, as I assume they will pick stuff that is broken. I mean, fight after fight they kill all the monsters without getting killed themselves! What sort of a game is this, anyway?
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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 2:04PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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Couldn't hurt to ask him if he thinks everything is actually going to respect your mark or not. Not everything will - or should.
True, but this is generally just based on monster intellect, and the assumption that only creatures of a certain intellect would violate a mark. That is highly subjective and might make a DM feel like he's throwing a fight. DMs should have plausible reasons for a creature violating a mark or not, but either is generally plausible. It's best that the DM feel like he or she is providing a challenge, rather than adhering to certain ideas about monster behavior.
If that's not what you meant, I apologise.
After all, part of what you do is punish. When you get mobbed, you're not punishing, you're just sponging, and not being allowed to do your job entirely like you could be able to.
That's also a non-starter. A defender defends whether sponging or punishing. A player can't expect to be able to dictate which they do.
All that said, I do recommend talking to the DM about this, especially if monsters are commonly targeting the paladin's weakest defense, or something.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 2:18PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
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Having good Con is also vital for a defender who wants to mass mark. Paladins are notoriously bad in that department. Do you have a background that bases your HP on your main stat instead of your Con? That would help tremendously here.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 3:40PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2010
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Having good Con is also vital for a defender who wants to mass mark. Paladins are notoriously bad in that department. Do you have a background that bases your HP on your main stat instead of your Con? That would help tremendously here.
I guess to answer all the questions.
I typically have 2 melee and maybe a ranged attacking me.
My DM considers tanks to be sponges who take hits, and thats how they help the group. He also has...everything honor my mark.
My CON is 14 (dragonborn, went char/con).
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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 3:56PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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I typically have 2 melee and maybe a ranged attacking me.
That seems like a lot. Are all of them marked?
My DM considers tanks to be sponges who take hits, and thats how they help the group. He also has...everything honor my mark.
That's not surprising. Some people see granting extra damage through opportunity attacks or mark violations as stupid behavior, a penalty for not paying attention. Any monster can plausibly see what the penalty is for violation and decide it doesn't want that. With your maxed Charisma and any imposed radiant vulnerability, it's hard to blame them. What kind of damage would they take? You've made the option of hitting you too good, and you have to deal with that.
Alternatively, talk to your allies about making larger nuisances of themselves. If they can make it work the enemies' while to attack them, then that's heat taken off of you. Right now, it sounds like the enemies are around for too long, during which time they focus on you.
My CON is 14 (dragonborn, went char/con).
Do you have Toughness and Durability? Do your items let you spend surges? Do you have a heavy shield?
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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