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Feb 8, 2013 -- 12:27PM, Haron wrote:

Following your explanation I gotta say that 90% of everything I've seen on the CharOP boards can be considered cheesy.

It's almost like 4e could be balanced better!

Feb 8, 2013 -- 11:09AM, Zathris wrote:

Feb 8, 2013 -- 9:57AM, Haron wrote:

Apparently we have a different perspective on what is cheesy.

Peace.

I'd guess you're using the traditional definition of cheesy (as it relates to games) which is of something that is easy to use, but highly effective. Cheap + Easy = Cheesy. Morninglord certainly is

We've kinda expanded the phrase to include anything that uses particularly weak points in the rules to accomplish something. In most RPG videogames or board games, it would be called a 'pro trick' or some other colloquialism because it can generally be assumed that is a. intended or b. never going to get fixed because the game is sold as a finished product, so get used to it. In a living game (hereby defined as one where new content is added, and rules can be changed retroactively) such as MMOs and tabletop games, things that are highly effective but difficult to pull off are generally called "bullshit, goddamn 13 year olds think they're so great just because they can play this game 18 hours a day, some of us have to - " sorry, was I channeling there? Where was I? ... Ah yes.

It's cheesy if:

• It's an easy, obvious combination that puts you higher than baseline. (Morninglord, Multi-attacking)
• It uses a combination of things that are clearly intended to not work in synchronicity, but do. (Epic Trick + Something to constantly regain all your powers, prior to errata; Charm of False Glory + Speaker of Xaos AP)
• It uses a hole in the rules, something that was never explicitly covered but event he most basic reading of the rules that do apply can tell you that it wasn't intended. (Stacking Vulnerabilities, powers used at a different frequency than listed ie. Encounter Powers effectively at-will)
• Poorly written rules that clearly break the game. Usually they simply don't work (Learned Boost), but often enough can deal infinite damage (Crushing Vortex) for utterly no reason.
• Poorly written rules that can be read multiple ways. (Death's Brink Armor)
• Rules that got overlooked when they did similar updates. (Conflagrating Breath, Crushing Vortex)

If you don't like your particular tactic being called cheesy (stacking vulnerabilities and damage instances), I could instead call it rules-abusive, questionably legal, etc.

Made.
My.
Day.