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4 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 10:10AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2009
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Dragon magazine presented Perception as a 7th ability score option along with an NPC class called the Sentinel more than 20 years ago during Advanced D&D. It was a fun idea then. We used it along with Comeliness as another ability score as well.
We had Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha, Perception, and Comeliness.
If ability scores were determined randomly and not mixed or assigned, then it wouldn't hurt if ability scores had different values. The opportunity to assign ability scores or to use point buy systems leads towards min/maxing and the need to balance each score againt the others.
More ability scores and decreasing the difference between the highest and lowest scores would help solve these problems.
People just don't like to adapt to rolls. They want to create a concept first and build that character rather than have a group of ability scores and then build a character with those.
Very interesting, do you happen to know which issue that might have been in?
Also very awsome input guys, this has given me alot of food for thought.
I'd grown concerned mostly out of my own experience where it was generally the cleric that was being posted as guard over say our fighters (it seems odd to me that the class you'd expect to be a guard was less adept at being one than the priest in the church) because of the generally higher peception (In 3.0/3.5). Now in 5e. with the skill system being... different it seemed to exacerbate the problem.
One other question: How often in practice do you guys actually meddle with the core stats?
The Perception Ability Score was introduced in Dragon Magazine Issue #133.
Comeliness was included in the AD&D 1st Edition Unearthed Arcana rulebook.
The Sentinel class was in Dragon Magazine Issue #89.
Dragon magazine presented Perception as a 7th ability score option along with an NPC class called the Sentinel more than 20 years ago during Advanced D&D. It was a fun idea then. We used it along with Comeliness as another ability score as well.
We had Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha, Perception, and Comeliness.
If ability scores were determined randomly and not mixed or assigned, then it wouldn't hurt if ability scores had different values. The opportunity to assign ability scores or to use point buy systems leads towards min/maxing and the need to balance each score againt the others.
More ability scores and decreasing the difference between the highest and lowest scores would help solve these problems.
People just don't like to adapt to rolls. They want to create a concept first and build that character rather than have a group of ability scores and then build a character with those.
Very interesting, do you happen to know which issue that might have been in?
Also very awsome input guys, this has given me alot of food for thought.
I'd grown concerned mostly out of my own experience where it was generally the cleric that was being posted as guard over say our fighters (it seems odd to me that the class you'd expect to be a guard was less adept at being one than the priest in the church) because of the generally higher peception (In 3.0/3.5). Now in 5e. with the skill system being... different it seemed to exacerbate the problem.
One other question: How often in practice do you guys actually meddle with the core stats?
I believe it was #89.
We used perception and comeliness during 2E but those were optional systems so it wasn't exactly meddling.
I've used various other ability scores in home grown campaigns as well. Lately, I've been sticking with the 6. I don't think they are sacred. The only problem is that if players can choose their stats (point buy) or put their highest rolled score in any ability, each ability score needs to have a utility weight that is balanced against the others.
if ability scores are determined in a more random fashion, any one ability score can have a greater or lesser weight and it doesn't matter.
See above...
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4 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 10:14AM
#22
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why dont you check out the optional skills and powers books from 2nd edition they broke down each ability score into 2 sub scores you could adjust
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4 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 12:38PM
#23
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The problem I have with a skill perception is that you make it a skill tax unless you want to be essentially blind. I'm much more inclined to use a full other Ability Score which can be raised and lowered than to add yet another skill, even if it is in addition to what we currently have.
Of course, in most cases Wisdom and Con work just fine for perception/notice-style checks for my games (Con for 'do you wake up when that noise is made?' checks). While Wisdom might not be the best name for the stat, the qualities that are implied and the definition given seem more than adequate.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 12:56PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2007
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Dragon magazine presented Perception as a 7th ability score option along with an NPC class called the Sentinel more than 20 years ago during Advanced D&D. It was a fun idea then. We used it along with Comeliness as another ability score as well.
We had Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha, Perception, and Comeliness...
... Also very awsome input guys, this has given me alot of food for thought.
I'd grown concerned mostly out of my own experience where it was generally the cleric that was being posted as guard over say our fighters (it seems odd to me that the class you'd expect to be a guard was less adept at being one than the priest in the church) because of the generally higher peception (In 3.0/3.5)...
We added Comliness and Perception as they came along. Skills (non-weapon proficiencies) might add to the Perception check if applicable (we're using 2e).
As for the Cleric guarding the fighters -- we have a "watch rotation" set up for each group, and make sure to have the casters on 1st or last watch (so they can get uninterrupted sleep) and we're sure to have at least one PC skilled at ranged attacks on each watch. Depending on the situation, one or both watchers might get a Perception roll if something's out there (or they think there might be).
We also allow Perception rolls for certain classes (the archer notices that the bows you got from the Elves were of Dwarf make), certain backgrounds (the scholar sees an ancient tome casually concealed in the pile of current literature), etc. I dare say it's the most-used roll outside of combat, and even gets used IN combat from time to time.
In memory of wrecan and his Unearthed Wrecana.5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."
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