Hello All. I was hoping someone coudl assist me in optimizing a Dread necromancer. All Wizards source books are viable options, and my stats are as follows at first level. Str: 10 Dex: 16 Con: 14 Int: 16 Wis: 12 Cha:19
I have 35,000 gold to spend initially as we are starting at 6th level. I want to maximize upon the dread necromancer abilities. The characters day job is that of a surgeon so some skill points will be designated to Knowlede anatomy, and profession Surgeon.
I am wondering if it is best to go straight Dread Necromancer or shoudl I dip into other classes as well. Any build suggestions or suggestions for items and feats are greatly welcome. Thanks in advance.
For starters you could look in the Libris Mortis for Tomb Tainted Soul which lets you heal from negative energy. I've heard in synergizes well with some of the Dread Necro's abilities.
Beyond that you're already better then anything I could ever make. You're being given the wealth of a 9th-level character (DMG 135) and your stats are twice the assumed level. Oh, and how are you getting CHA 19? I was generously assuming you started with CHA 18 and put the 4th-level bump in there for a point buy equivalent of 50 points. While the DM may tell you that you're starting at 6th-level I'm just looking at things and saying you're actually starting at 8th or 9th level.
Well the stats are not point buy they were rolled. The starting money is higher than normal as we using some of the old Greyhawk rules as far as parentage and starting wealth from gem of the Flaeness. I expect to take tomb tainted soul as you stated. I am looking for suggestions for advancement from 7th and up. Thanks
StevenO you know you don't have to be like "woahz crazy stats" everytime someone asks for some help with a build and posts stats right? Sure it's way above a right out of the DMG point-buy, crazy good if all you did was roll 3d6 or even 4d6, but for all you know they're playing with some houserule along the lines of rolling a super number of sets or some such. Anyways as far as the build goes I'd take a close look at seeing if you couldn't swap that Str with that Con and just roll yourself up as a Necropolitan seeing as as your already starting at 6th and maybe use some of that stupid good starting cash and say your creator was a high level dread necro themselves, had corpsecrafter, and throw in a few decent SLA's thanks to being spellstiched. Go for broke man, no need to wait to level 20 to reap the full on benefits of undead-dom like a normal DN.
Wont Necropolitan take away a level from me so I woudl be a level behing everyone else? What level is it best to take it at if I did?
Experience is a river. Lower-level characters completing challenges as part of a higher level party will earn more experience than their higher-level companions, so the gap closes faster than you'd think. There's a rule of thumb called the One Level Gravy Train that suggests that item crafters should stay one level behind their team, but advance at the same rate instead of the accelerated rate - the leftover XP is used to fuel item creation, in turn equipping the party far better than they could with simple loot or shopping.
(Caveat: This will not work with a level adjustment. A level 8 character with a +1 level adjustment is, for all intents and purposes related to XP, level 9, so he isn't one level behind a level 9 party.)
Eld20Generalissimo, StevenO has a point. You can crunch the probabilities on 4d6-drop-lowest, and find out that the "average" result is actually 15/14/13/12/10/8. Seeing six ability scores all above 10 and most above 14 is a statistical outlier. And, when you see lots and lots of "help me with my character please, my ability scores are all godlike" threads over and over and over, you begin to lose faith that people are actually following the rules.
On a related note, he's level 6, which should have 13000 GP in equipment, yet is asking for 35000 GP in equipment for suggestions. That's about what a 9th level character should have (WBL for 9h is 36000). So not only are his ability scores too high, his wallet is too deep.
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.
[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling) [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme) [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class) [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme) [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility) [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC) [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods) [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability) [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme) [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage) [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme) [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme). [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme) [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management) [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum) [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt) [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder) [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard) [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster) [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout) [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum) [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme) [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x) [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB)) [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive) [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork) [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support) [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility) [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt) [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical) [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical) [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist) [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme) [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity) [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)
Level 6 game with high powered stats and gear. High stats and wealth seem like fun, but especially at lower levels they actually take a lot away from the fun of "building a good character" most of your choices are a lot less relevant if no matter how bad your choices are you're still awesome.
StevenO you know you don't have to be like "woahz crazy stats" everytime someone asks for some help with a build and posts stats right? Sure it's way above a right out of the DMG point-buy, crazy good if all you did was roll 3d6 or even 4d6, but for all you know they're playing with some houserule along the lines of rolling a super number of sets or some such. ...
Actually, I feel like I do.
Most builds can be done using standard stats and while most favor certain stat over others they work. When you go and start throwing down crazy stats you automatically push up a build and often eliminate/reduce any weakness a focused build had which could potentially be exploited. I'd say the only reason some builds would even be allowed to play is because they have a weakness and if that weakness is gone they becomes too strong. To put something simply a "good build" doesn't require "god stats" to make it.
Tempest also mentions that statistical analysis of 4d6 drop lowest produces results between PB 30 and PB 25 depending a little on how low scores are treated. The problem is that you almost NEVER see someone come looking for help with a "poor" array which should exist but often see people mentioning stats that blow up the average. I'm sorry but I have no faith in "rolling" methods because they never seem like the produce expected results. People also pass of "rolled" stats like they followed the rules when they really use some enhanced rolling method; just rolling two sets of stats and choosing improves stats greatly and rerolling any number produces a huge increase.
Another issue I have with "high" stats is that they throw off any balance intended for listed CRs. If you take two characters and give one higher stats which is more powerful? Unfortunately that isn't well represented by the numbers. Now to challenge that exceptionally powerful character you either need to use higher CR opponents or you need to do the hard work of boosting everything's stats. I shouldn't need to point it out but by boosting everything's stats you really didn't do the PCs any good and you made more work for the DM.
As Andarious-Rosethorn mentions high stats at low level can overwhelm things with their bigger bonuses. This plays into my suggestion that high stats are effectively a LA that normally isn't accounted for.
Now even with all of my issues with those high stats there is NOTHING shown that explains starting with CHA 19 at first level. That means it is an illegal score regardless of any dice rolling. If there are houserule in effect that increase the power level of a game they really should be noted.
I guess I just wonder at the pertinence of it. If he had prefaced his stats with a "having rolled ten sets of 4d4+4" or some other wonky house rule that solely impacted stat generation, would it in fact significantly alter the nature of the advice you'd give in optimizing a Dread Necromancer? Furthermore, if the stats were genereated in a manner most foul, do you think your skepticism will result in them exposing themselves or some such? I'm not saying you shouldn't automatically call into question the stats, I mean it IS the internet, but I also don't know that tacking on the textual equivalent to a highly raised eyebrow to anything a smidge north of a 30 PB is particularly helpful either. Of course the stats and wealth in this specific instance are crazy, but seeing as optimization can flourish in a stringent and lackluster enviroment, I don't see why it can't do likewise in dreamland-happy-cake-town.
OK the high stats are based on 4D6 drop lowest, ans we were instructed to re-roll ones. My Charisma was 18 at first level plus 1 at 4th equals 19 SteveO. I am not running this game so criticizing for what I was instructed to use is pointless. Again with the money as stated it is being based off the old Greyhawk rules in Gem of the flaeness. The Dm gives all monsters Max hit points based not their hit dice and tends to beef things up in his own fashion. My intention was to get somee suggestions on a path of advancement for the Dread Necromancer build itself. I was under the impression I might be able to get some good build suggestions and not get beat up about the rules I was given to create a character. I am looking to create a well rounded character than just a minion master. My character is also going to be a surgeon with a fascination with death and life.