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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 8:47AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Not getting the answer you expected, are you Yagami? (I'll give a full answer to the actual question when I have time)
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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 10:20AM
#12
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I fudge dice. I ignore dice. I give red herring options mostly so that I can force the results of player choices to be what the railroad has planned and thus prevent the players from seeing the rails. I ignore monster hit points. I reduce monster damage. I make stuff up out of thin air with absolutely no basis in rules or expectations. I ruthlessly lie, cheat, and steal and if I do it correctly the players never even suspect a thing and have a grand ol' time. This is the job I choose when I sit behind the Wall of Fear and Ignorance on the Polyhedral Throne.
Old School: It ain't what you play - it's how you play it.
My 1E Project:
http://home.earthlink.net/~duanevp/dnd/Building%20D&D/buildingdnd.htm
"Who says I can't?"
"The man in the funny hat..."
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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 10:25AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Well said.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 11:19AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jan 16, 2013
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My preferred style is to have a general plan as to where things MIGHT go. I will set up pre-planned encounters and yes I will sometimes place them in the path of the PCs who then have the option as to how they're going to handle it. Whether it be to avoid it, deal with it head on or something else entirely.
This is the style of play that works for my group. They all enjoy it and they know that this is what I do in order to provide things for them to do and experience. We communicate openly about our games and it's what makes our group click. I have a rule that all my players know. As a DM I will never lie to them. If they ask a question about the campaign we will discuss it. This doesn't mean I give away that "The next creature you fight is gonna be this...", and they wouldn't ask that type of thing because they want it to be a surprise. But it does mean that I have no qualms about talking about the methods I use to any of my players and if there is something we disagree on we all talk about it together so that we can make adjustments that everyone can be satisfied with.
I also want to expound a little more on what I said. My players know that I will never lie to them as a DM (basically I will talk about stuff out of the game and tell them the truth), but they also know that my NPCs may indeed lie, cheat, steal, give them information that is false but the NPC thinks is accurate, etc. They know this and they like the challenge of figuring out what is truth and what is not within the game.
I roll out in front of my players. The only thing my screen is for is to hide monsters stats and the like from them. That being said if a monster rolls a crit and ends up killing a player, then that's what happens. However, I haven't had this happen very much at all. I would have to say that in less than 50% of my combat encounters does it end up being a "bring all bad guys to zero HP to win" type of thing and the other times there are alternate ways to win/lose.
Finally, I have no problem telling my players to come read these things because they already know them.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 11:31AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2009
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I run a fairly free, open game. Because I do very little prep for my game, the players don't have any real rails to follow, but in a way you could say I soft railroad them. The players make up far more of the story in my game than they realize. I come up with a basic idea of what's going on in the location, and they then get let loose to investigate in whatever way they want. Currently there is a Rakshasa impersonating the leader of the merchants guild kidnapping people from the slums to use in a ritual to open a portal to another plane. That’s the entirety of my prep for the whole adventure. So, the players decided to talk to the local thieves guild to try and find out what was going on. They discovered that one member had dropped off the radar, so they went looking for him. Turns out he was being blackmailed by the rakshasa into taking these people They had a couple of skirmishes against him and his friends as they tracked him down, and then they had the information they wanted. But what if they had tried to talk to contacts within the nobility? Well, perhaps they would have discovered that one of the wizards was being far more reclusive, not answering requests and not appearing in public lately. It could turn out that he’s hungry for power and is working for the rakshasa. So, is this railroading? I mean, they end up at the same point with similar information whatever happens. All that’s changed is the way in which they got there. The journey is completely different, as they’ve had different encounters and made different friends, but they still end up where I wanted them. So have I invalidated the players’ choices? Maybe. Is that railroading? Maybe. But the players don’t know it is. They have a good time whatever, and their actions ARE having a real impact on the world, through the relationships they build and the places they discover. Currently they’re about to enter some thieves guild tunnels blocked off for decades, but they could just as easily be doing other tasks to get in good with the higher powers of the city. The point is, railroading is fine. Rails help-they steer the players to where the good action is. That's not to say that going off the rails should be boring, but I find that my planned encounters are usually much better than improvised ones because I've had more time to plan, think of cool ideas, and bounce ideas of other DMs and friends. And I can do this when they're in a confined area, such as a house, tower, dungeon or other area which I can map out, so I love it when they end a session just about to head into one of these places. So, I think soft railroading can indeed be good for a party. As for dice fudging I used to roll behind a screen so I could if I wanted to, but I found that I fudged so rarely it was easier just to roll in the open, as it not only built trust but it also meant I could get rid of the annoying barrier between me and the players! Currently I play on skype so the option is open to me, but I very much doubt I ever will. If the players die, it probably means they should have legged it a couple of rounds ago. Sure, the enemies may get a lucky crit, but hey, that's life.
I have never played 4E. Or 3.5E. Or 3E. Or 2E. Or 1E. Or OD&D. Therefore, assume all my posts are non edition specific.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 12:15PM
#16
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I fudge dice. I ignore dice. I give red herring options mostly so that I can force the results of player choices to be what the railroad has planned and thus prevent the players from seeing the rails. I ignore monster hit points. I reduce monster damage. I make stuff up out of thin air with absolutely no basis in rules or expectations. I ruthlessly lie, cheat, and steal and if I do it correctly the players never even suspect a thing and have a grand ol' time. This is the job I choose when I sit behind the Wall of Fear and Ignorance on the Polyhedral Throne.
Well said.
LMFAO!
Good god that literally made me tear up from laughing. Well done, you funny-hatted gentleman. Well done.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 12:17PM
#17
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Not getting the answer you expected, are you Yagami? (I'll give a full answer to the actual question when I have time)
You are assuming I am looking for a particular response. I find that humorous.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 12:53PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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I fudge dice. I ignore dice. I give red herring options mostly so that I can force the results of player choices to be what the railroad has planned and thus prevent the players from seeing the rails. I ignore monster hit points. I reduce monster damage. I make stuff up out of thin air with absolutely no basis in rules or expectations. I ruthlessly lie, cheat, and steal and if I do it correctly the players never even suspect a thing and have a grand ol' time. This is the job I choose when I sit behind the Wall of Fear and Ignorance on the Polyhedral Throne.
Well said.
LMFAO!
Good god that literally made me tear up from laughing. Well done, you funny-hatted gentleman. Well done.
My sarcasm detector is as good as the next person's. But if you break it down, pretty much every thing he has said has been said by someone else, and so this is quite a nice summary.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 8:52PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2003
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Jplay36 and Kugnar have said most os what I was going to, so I'm gonna give a +1 to both of them. Also, jonathan_sicari...I love the David Eddings reference. Do you actually run your games in that world (or a version of it), or was that just a hypothetical, using the names for ease of the example? If, as DM, you do not mind occasionally invalidating player choices to fit your pre-conceived notion of what is better (usually because it is necessary for your 'plot' or 'story' or whathaveyou) would you have an issue posting here in admittance of that?
That's going a few steps farther than I ever would. If the players make a choice, I'm not going to say "nope, this happens no matter what you do".
This includes presenting options that do not actually matter. This includes fudging dice or die results to make things "better" (of course in your own opinion) for the game or the story or whatever. This includes things like magician switches and quantum-game components.
This is a different matter, because here, you're talking about maybe fudging a die roll once in a while (like 10% or less of the time), or adapting what you had pre-planned to fit within the game to be in keeping with the players' choices.
If so, and you are willing to admit to it openly on the thread, would you also be willing to direct your players to this thread?
If not, why?
Sure. But none of my player even have a login to these forums. They all know I get on here, and I frequently discuss with them some of the dicusions from the boards and ask for their opinions and inputs on the matter. But I would have no problem with them knowing that I am willing to do things like that. I run at least 90% of my game completely straight and honest.
If the answer to "why" in the previous question is "Because it would remove the illusion of choice I have made for them" or something similar, how would you ever reconcile that with the act of teaching a player to DM? Would, in fully teaching them, that act not destroy the very illusion so carefully crafted to trick them as a player?
Whenever anyone I know is taking the reins as a DM for the first time, I impart as much advice and lessons as I can. I also try to remain available if they want help.
Likewise, when I play, if I ever have cause to think that a DM is doing the same kinds of things...I shrug it off. DMs all run the game in different ways. Especially if I can still arguably see that my choices as a player are being rewarded. If it's "hard railroading", that's another story. Then I bring up the issue with the DM after the session. And I would hope if I ever slipped and made a mistake, and the player felt like his choice was invalidated, that it would be brought to my attention after the session.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 03, 2013 - 9:04PM
#20
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While in times past (2e) my home gameworld stole wholesale from Midkemia, the world of the Belgariad and the Mallorean as well as elements of DragonLance (I justified it with the 1e reference to higher than level 20 characters being given the option of being planeshifted out of DL) and set it in a demi-shadow plane sort of like ravenloft (I was young and stole lot's of things).
Another time I ran a BESM game set in the past of the Belgariad after the Battle of Vo Mimbre.
Currently I use it for character inspiration and to rob of tropes for advancing my games.
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