So I've read bits of the most recent playtest packets and I've been keeping up with the legends and lore column. I find it interesting how Mearls wants a basic, standard and advanced version of the game. I really like this idea but I think a major change they should make in the basic game is simplifying spell descriptions.
Take the Earthquake spell for example, that spell has tons of rules in it for various situations. I find really long spell descriptions to be a pain to look up during the game. I think that when designing the basic rule set the designs should take a look at how the rules cyclopedia handled spells (which I'm sure they've already done to some extent). The earthquake spell in that version of the game was short and to the point.
I don't really care if the spells are more complex in the standard game or the advanced game because I'm sure some players and DMs would prefer the extra rules. I tend to be a less is more type of DM when it comes to rules in the game and I don't really want the rules to be super air-tight and try and list every situation.
Does anyone have any other ideas on what WoTC should do to make the basic game more accessible and simple? I would also be interested to see if they could try adding race as class as a rules module in the future.
I suppose there are something they could do in that regards, but they can't actually do much without breaking the basic principle that characters are equivelent across versions.
If spells are different in basic then standard, it quickly becomes impossible to just take a wizard from basic to standard. I can see simplifying some of the rules for specific spells in basic, particularly high level spells that require a lot of special handling. It would probably be better to simply leave those spells out of basic if they require too much rules though.
"Simple" = prebuilt. Just do not have a prebuilt wizard with earthquake. Make it with magic missile.
If you want earthquake, that's fine, but you've modified your character and took a different spell, and thus moved to "standard". Same as a fighter who modified his character and took a different manuver.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
"Simple" = prebuilt. Just do not have a prebuilt wizard with earthquake. Make it with magic missile.
If you want earthquake, that's fine, but you've modified your character and took a different spell, and thus moved to "standard". Same as a fighter who modified his character and took a different manuver.
I agree. The basic cleric and wizard will each have simple to use spells pre-selected.
"Simple" = prebuilt. Just do not have a prebuilt wizard with earthquake. Make it with magic missile.
If you want earthquake, that's fine, but you've modified your character and took a different spell, and thus moved to "standard". Same as a fighter who modified his character and took a different manuver.
I agree. The basic cleric and wizard will each have simple to use spells pre-selected.
Not sure that's possible: a Cleric has access to the whole spells list from which to pick his spells for the day. And the Wizard could as well get all available spells in his book with time.
Unless we say that for Basic game the spell list is reduced, which I don't think is the intention.
Actually I think the OP has a point here. The magic system as it is not friedly to newcomers. It would be good to have some streamlined way to present magic to them (which may actually benefit everyone else as well).
"Simple" = prebuilt. Just do not have a prebuilt wizard with earthquake. Make it with magic missile.
If you want earthquake, that's fine, but you've modified your character and took a different spell, and thus moved to "standard". Same as a fighter who modified his character and took a different manuver.
I agree. The basic cleric and wizard will each have simple to use spells pre-selected.
Not sure that's possible: a Cleric has access to the whole spells list from which to pick his spells for the day. And the Wizard could as well get all available spells in his book with time.
Unless we say that for Basic game the spell list is reduced, which I don't think is the intention.
Actually I think the OP has a point here. The magic system as it is not friedly to newcomers. It would be good to have some streamlined way to present magic to them (which may actually benefit everyone else as well).
It's not really any different.
Basic clerics have a list of spells they always prepair. Done.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
I like the idea of just not including the more complicated spells within the basic game, especially since the alternative is to dumb them down for the basic game or just not include such spells in any version of the game.
Actually, I would be okay with all spells in general just not being that complicated, but I know I'm in the minority on that one.
Basic clerics have a list of spells they always prepair. Done.
Yes, that would be the path of least resistance, and a valid solution. Still I find the magic system quite unwieldy for newcomers. Historically the 'solution' has been for them to begin playing with simpler (martial) classes, but I'd be happy for magic to become more accesible so that any player can comfortably play the class they want from start regardless of their expertise with the game.
Basic clerics have a list of spells they always prepair. Done.
Yes, that would be the path of least resistance, and a valid solution. Still I find the magic system quite unwieldy for newcomers. Historically the 'solution' has been for them to begin playing with simpler (martial) classes, but I'd be happy for magic to become more accesible so that any player can comfortably play the class they want from start regardless of their expertise with the game.
Well i'm still all for a martialspell damage dice blaster class with their own manuversmetamagic.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Actually, I would be okay with all spells in general just not being that complicated, but I know I'm in the minority on that one.
No, WotC has decided that they absolutly NEED their 150 pages of spells in the back of the book or they won't be able to entice their not-even-trying-to-conceal-it target audience. The game must be "simple" and "basic" only to the point where it does not effect the complex and space-wasting caster classes.
