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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 4:23AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2010
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The problem I have with aging or level draining is they are permanent in previous editions, unless magic was used to recover. This often dragged the party down, and often forced a break in the story line as the characters immediate focus is to restore themselves. There is no good solution for characters changing their minds in the middle of an adventure, so it is up to the DM to use those type of effects wisely.
The other thing I did not like was the bookkeeping for level draining, and I am more satisfied with the hit point loss mechanism. I agree aging can be implemented as a condition and would have a couple different stages like child, old, or elder. But instead of modifying attributes, there would be interesting and more subtle affects for each one.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 4:31AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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I used to be a big fan of level drain. However, over time, I have come to realize that it is - in fact - not a great mechanic. To be honest - I actually like the current version (reducing max hit points). It is actually more deadly (as my players found out after the Dread Wraith criticalled one of them and he failed his save), so it serves the purpose nicely (it makes certain creatures far more 'scary' than they would be if all they did was straight damage) without the metagame hassles of changing the character's level.
Aging - if handled similarly - also deserves a place in the game. But I wouldn't go with incremental aging. Instead I would go with 'aged' as an effect/ condition. If something 'ages' you - it does it all at once. One moment you are young, hale and hearty - and the next you are old and decrepit. From the perspective of a literary trope - can you think of an instance where the protagonist was aged that didn't jump him an age category? Characters go from 'kid' to 'adult' or 'adult' to 'ancient', not from 'adult' to 'slightly older adult'.
Incremental age increases are pointless waste of time and bookkeeping. If you are going to be aged by something - it should make you aged. And that should then impose penalties.
Note: This also gets around the fact that a ten year jump is potentially meaningful to humans, but pretty much irrelevant to any other race. By making 'aged' a category, you sidestep the fact that different races age at different paces. Carl
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 4:47AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2010
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In that respect you could have two categories to cover touched by a ghost or fountain of youth. So you would have 'aged' and there would need to be an equivalent for literally becoming a kid.
There may need to be a category for adding on years, i.e. "longevity'.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 4:55AM
#34
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I already gave my solution: Throw it out. It's a terrible, unfun, annoying mechanic
Speak for yourself. And concerning tracking resources and aging, if you want to turn your RPG game into a pseudo video-game of hack and slash where all you do is roll damage from this attack or that spell until you "clear the dungeon" of monsters... that's perfectly fine if that's how your group likes to play tabletop. But I'd rather see D&D made like the real tabletop RPG it has always been. If you don't like those rules you simply house-rule them out of your game. Easy job. But not all of us want to see our D&D turned into Diablo.
So I say yes to: 1-Tracking resources like food and water. Because survival is part of the game. And not all challenges should be about how many hit points a monster has or how much damage he does.
2-Character aging (not so much concerning magical effects but simply keeping track of the years passed in the campaign). Because it makes a character feel more human (or human-like if you're another humanoid race) and real. And it's very cool to see your character start out in his teens at level 1 and be around his forties when he's of higher level, and see how that person has spent his life in that setting, how he has influenced the world, how to world influenced him and made him what he became, what he has accomplished... meaning, seeing in a character the changes we all experience in life as we grow, giving the character a lot more depth, and a great lifetime story.
3-Level drain, energy drain and other such effects. Because of what I said in topic 1, that not all challenges should be set by HP/damage, and because such abilities are perfect for certain monster concepts, like some types of undead. And because it's those abilities that, more than anything, make a player feel that chill in his spine and fear for his character when he encounters a monster... instead of simply saying "whatever, I have enough HP, just keep 'em coming." Encounters with such creatures are always memorable in campaigns. Yet your DM shouldn't be including creatures like that all the time in the game like they were orcs or kobolds, or else the players would just feel underwhelmed. They're for those special moments. Also, there should also be a way in game to reverse these effects, but they shouldn't be easily accessible like simply casting a restoration, or else it kinda defeats the purpose of having something your players would be terrified to face.
And I would say no to: 1- The wish spell. Kinda "meh" to have a spell that can do anything and practically renders all other spells obsolete. I would maybe use Wish as part of an artifact or something very very rare like that, and even then giving it a slight possibility of misfiring or something of the sort. But as a spell you can use almost at will... nah.
That said, I don't mind at all the spell being left as core since it's always been there and it's one of those iconic things in D&D. Like I said, it's a simple thing to house-rule it out of my games. Which is what I've always done not only with Wish but some other spells like Fly as well.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 8:31AM
#35
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2006
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This very, very quickly boils down to "some people like this and some people don't".
At best, it should be an optional rule, meaning a module, meaning it shouldn't really be put into the core game.
IMHO, they should have a module "For people that walked to school barefoot in the snow, uphill, both ways". All it does is change things to be as similar to 2e as possible, including any and all rules they can cram into there. Skills for thief only, racial-based level caps (with notes that this is not actually meant to be used), level drain, and even a "GRIMNESS!" (exclamation mark required) die where every time you open a door, you roll the die - get a skull, and your character dies! Comes with optional cane and pre-recorded message of "Them darn kids! Get off my lawn!".
Maybe then people will stop trying to shove 2e mechanics on the rest of the game and claiming that you're playing it wrong if you don't like it.
Want the tl;dr of my posts? Read the bold text; I put it there to highlight the main points for ease of skimming.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 12:32PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2008
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This very, very quickly boils down to "some people like this and some people don't".
At best, it should be an optional rule, meaning a module, meaning it shouldn't really be put into the core game.
IMHO, they should have a module "For people that walked to school barefoot in the snow, uphill, both ways". All it does is change things to be as similar to 2e as possible, including any and all rules they can cram into there. Skills for thief only, racial-based level caps (with notes that this is not actually meant to be used), level drain, and even a "GRIMNESS!" (exclamation mark required) die where every time you open a door, you roll the die - get a skull, and your character dies! Comes with optional cane and pre-recorded message of "Them darn kids! Get off my lawn!".
Maybe then people will stop trying to shove 2e mechanics on the rest of the game and claiming that you're playing it wrong if you don't like it.
Pretty funny, but there is something to be said about having an old-school, treacherous module for the game. Tomb of Horrors remake for 4th took a step in that direction with it's optional rules. Thing is some people cannot feel comfortable modifying without the modifications being offical endorsed. It's an odd mindset, but it's apparently very real and powerful.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 3:20PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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IMHO, they should have a module "For people that walked to school barefoot in the snow, uphill, both ways". All it does is change things to be as similar to 2e as possible, including any and all rules they can cram into there. Skills for thief only, racial-based level caps (with notes that this is not actually meant to be used), level drain, and even a "GRIMNESS!" (exclamation mark required) die where every time you open a door, you roll the die - get a skull, and your character dies! Comes with optional cane and pre-recorded message of "Them darn kids! Get off my lawn!".
Wow. Could you have crammed in any other dismissive sentiments into this post? Because it looks like it's pretty well damn near impossible.
Who died and made you the purveyor of what is and isn't fun to have in an RPG game?
Maybe then people will stop trying to shove 2e mechanics on the rest of the game and claiming that you're playing it wrong if you don't like it.
Most people in this thread have been amenable to making the more controversial elements optional. I don't know the mere idea that some people enjoyed those rules you declare shouldn't belong in any RPG offends you so much. But dude. Take a chill pill.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 3:42PM
#38
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This very, very quickly boils down to "some people like this and some people don't".
At best, it should be an optional rule, meaning a module, meaning it shouldn't really be put into the core game.
IMHO, they should have a module "For people that walked to school barefoot in the snow, uphill, both ways". All it does is change things to be as similar to 2e as possible, including any and all rules they can cram into there. Skills for thief only, racial-based level caps (with notes that this is not actually meant to be used), level drain, and even a "GRIMNESS!" (exclamation mark required) die where every time you open a door, you roll the die - get a skull, and your character dies! Comes with optional cane and pre-recorded message of "Them darn kids! Get off my lawn!".
Maybe then people will stop trying to shove 2e mechanics on the rest of the game and claiming that you're playing it wrong if you don't like it.
Well, if you don't like that style of game, I'm sure we can hook you up with an alternative: www.d20monkey.com/2011/03/04/rated-e-for...
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 4:14PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2010
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There is always the groaning spirit and death saving throw to discuss.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 8:16PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I dont think level is a good measure of life force either... its what degree of adversary you are capable of tangoing with.
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