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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 6:39PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
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I love the ignorant asumption of free time and income, when there are ALOT more distraction in the world than back then and activity/service/products that cover a similar need to tabletop rpg...and economy overall is not as healthy, it just that alot of things are cheaper now than their 25 years old counterpart back on the day...
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 6:41PM
#52
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there are many reasons why people arent posting here, because it isnt as important to them is only one small reason. a more interesting question would be who is posting here, and again the majority of people on this thread seem to believe 4e supporters are the loudest and the majority.
At one time the majority of people believed the world was flat too. It didn't mean the world was flat.
I dont need to compile a database of reviews of postings rating people of in support, against, and anger vs support level. I can read these posts and come to a well informed observation as many others on this thread seem to have done, then form an unproven hypothisis. I am not stating fact, I am stating opinion one that at least parts of which some others seem to agree with.
You are claiming the loudest voices on these forums want a 4.5 for the next edition, "if we followed only the loudest suggestions D&D next would just be D&D 4.5" While I can't deny that such people may exist, I can in no way reasonably conclude that they are the loudest voices on these forums.
I can claim anything I want to claim, the purpose was humor, something you seem to be lacking in, you are missassuming that I care if you accept my claims as proof or not.
Humor is notoriously hard to get across without tone of voice or facial cues. As is sarcasm and many other emotions, and I believe it is at least partly responsible for misunderstandings online.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
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so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 7:28PM
#53
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well there was another divide that happened because of 4e. those 3.5 gamers who wernt raised with twitter and facebook and who dont really have a huge web presence, simply switched to PF or stuck with 3.5. they never really did jump on the 4e bandwagon, that change was seen (painfully) in the sales figures for 4e, and the 3.5 majority who caused that slump besides a few outspoken minority let their pocketbooks do their talking.
I think the majoity of people who loved 4e were younger and much more net savy, they have the time and inclination to get on here and bash 3.5 lovers, and to try and direct how Next is produced which I think is an extremely dangerous thing. if the designers follow the suggestions of the loudest people on the net their going to create another game that the majority of RPG players wont want to play.
...
What's the geeky term used to measure someone's followers on Twitter?
Oh yeah, the "milliwheaton". A gamer whose play predates 3e.
And many of the big names of D&D on twitter easily date back to the 2e or 3e days.
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say? Spoiler:
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My Webcomic
Updated Tuesday and Thursday
Read my blog on the WotC Community Site (updated irregularly to avoid spamming the "Featured Blogger" list).
You can follow me on Twitter: "@DnDJester"
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 7:30PM
#54
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2012
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The silent majority never gets what they want. They are too lazy and indifferent to speak their minds.
The loud minority rules all worlds, the real world and this campaign setting called D&D.
If you promote your ideas, if you repeat your ideas and try to use different reasoning, your ideas will influence those ideas of other loud people.
Nobody ever changed anything by remaining silent.
Nobody.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 8:01PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2012
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tell that to the guy who shot kennedy, or to the people who didnt buy 4e books, truth is silence is an action as is innaction. loudness is not required for intense change.
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 8:04PM
#56
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tell that to the guy who shot kennedy
Taking action, whether it's for good or ill, is not remaining silent.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:14PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2006
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Worse is the recent trend of clear 4th edition fans declaring any posts indicating 4th edition had issues as "Edition warring", which appears to be a tactic designed to drive out any discussion that doesn't reflect well on 4th as "Edition warring" is an actionable offense.
I think a large part of this, however, is people bringing up criticisms of 4e that have been yelled over and over in the edition wars and refuted over and over in the edition wars; bringing them up yet again seems to be just another battle in the war. I find it more rare that "edition wars" are brought up when a sound, logical approach to the faults of the system are brought out, especially in light of how it relates to DDN design and development. I find it much more common when people make posts with "4e was a failed edition", "all classes are the same in 4e", and other ridiculous claims.
On the age of most D&D players: It's great if you're 30-40 and married and most of the gamers you know are 30-40 and married. Really? That's a shocker. Most of the people you know on any sort of intimate basis are 30-40 and married. On the other hand, most people in their early 20's will likely tell you that most gamers they know are in their early 20's (guess why). I'd be curious to see what sort of data WotC has turned up for the purchases of different editions for different age groups (if they even have much access to this sort of data). In the meantime, I know I bought D&D books with allowance money (or asked parents to buy them) when I was a teen; I bought books with my own money when I became an adult, as I have aged I have never really stopped buying D&D books. Most people I know that are passionate gamers are the same way, so I'm going to assume that there are significant amounts of passionate gamers in every age group. Which group has the most gamers in general? I honestly could not even hazard a guess. Lots of people stop playing once they have a family and full time job and yardwork and a car to work on, etc etc. Lots of people stop playing when they get out of the military. Lots of people stop playing when they are old enough to buy beer. Lots of people don't stop playing, and still play today.
If it matters at all, I think I am in the "I" category. I've had fun playing almost every edition, so I can't say that I passionately hate older editions; I simply see D&D as continually evolving and getting better, and I can find faults in every edition. I can personally find more faults on some editions, and fewer perks in some systems - from what I feel is an objective point of view. But that is neither here nor there.
Want the tl;dr of my posts? Read the bold text; I put it there to highlight the main points for ease of skimming.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:20PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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This thread went from a kind of interesting meta-discussion of the forums, to one poster trying (or perhaps it comes natural) to sound as much like the stereotypical "kids these days!" individual-of-advanced-age as humanly possible, and the adventures of people responding to him. 
Feedback Disclaimer
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.
No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).
(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft)A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)My 4e Projects
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:23PM
#59
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What matters is creating an awesome game, not strictly appeasing as many people as possible. It's a fallacy of democracy that the most popular course is always the best.
Then why is it that they are consistantly failing to deliver an awesome game, with each succcessive playtest pacet getting further from the mark?
Evr seen the old Mel Brooks film "The Producers"? It' about a failed Broadway producer who discovers that, because of some accounting vagaries, he can actually turn a larger profit with a flop than he can with a hit. He and his partner then set out to make the worst play in the history of the theater. Hilarity ensues.
I often wonder if D&D Next isn't some Producers-esque snow job, where wotc makes a killing by intentionally tanking the franchise.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:26PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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What matters is creating an awesome game, not strictly appeasing as many people as possible. It's a fallacy of democracy that the most popular course is always the best.
Then why is it that they are consistantly failing to deliver an awesome game, with each succcessive playtest pacet getting further from the mark?
Because the playtest packets aren't designed to deliver an awesome game. They're designed to test individual pieces, not the whole thing.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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