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5 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:31PM
#61
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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The best part about these forums is they give me something to stare at on the bus. I can also emote and babble about stuff that largely makes no difference and doesn't matter on any scale of anything. Basically it's something to fill space. Does that make me one of the loud minority?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:43PM
#62
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It's funny, since 5e hit the forums, I haven't actually felt all that much pressure from 4e enthusiasts on these boards. I may well follow them less than others but, honestly, from lurking these for 7 or so years now, I feel like I can say pretty conclusively that there are probably about 100 people max who contribute most of the non-wotc-affiliated RESPONSES on these boards, maybe 25 of which are kind of all-stars, either quantitatively or qualitatively.
Whenever I see a new poll or article asking for feedback, I see A LOT of familiar faces, and this isn't a bad thing at all in my mind. It just shows commitment if anything and I'm right there with most of you. I highly doubt Wotc has any difficulty assigning a relative weight to what is said on the boards compared to what their raw survey data and sales figures say. They've even acknowledged that they view us as a kind of 'super-playtesting group' because we provide a lot of information and discussion over and above what is possible from the play-test itself.
Given all this, I don't really understand the vocal minority argument. That would only apply if we all got one 'vote' or something, which we don't, we can 'vote' with dollars, we can vote with feedback, we can vote with discussions, and we can even 'lobby' our fellow gamers informationally or use 'soft coercion' with availability of game-play experiences, (if each of us only DM a certain edition, that often limits options for players to that edition). Moreover, DDN is not ultimately the result of a public, democratic process, but a private profit-motivated one that ostensibly seeks to engage its customers as broadly and deeply as possible. Not that it would be wise, but they are totally free to disregard any input they receive.
That all being said, I think they've been doing a fairly admirable job of trying to incorporate valid feedback.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:51PM
#63
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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Moreover, DDN is not ultimately the result of a public, democratic process, but a private profit-motivated one that ostensibly seeks to engage its customers as broadly and deeply as possible. Not that it would be wise, but they are totally free to disregard any input they receive.
That all being said, I think they've been doing a fairly admirable job of trying to incorporate valid feedback.
That bit there. We need to keep that in the front of our minds: this whole thing is a business arrangement and we're a focus group. We are not fans or even customers; we are free labour.
And they're treating us pretty decently with some good PR and free game stuff so it's not like they're evil overlords. And yeah I think they've been pretty good about listening too - but this is business. Never forget that.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 12:43AM
#64
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2003
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well there was another divide that happened because of 4e. those 3.5 gamers who wernt raised with twitter and facebook and who dont really have a huge web presence, simply switched to PF or stuck with 3.5. they never really did jump on the 4e bandwagon, that change was seen (painfully) in the sales figures for 4e, and the 3.5 majority who caused that slump besides a few outspoken minority let their pocketbooks do their talking.
I think the majoity of people who loved 4e were younger and much more net savy,
I'm not sure you can equate 3.5 fans that didn't like 4e as being less web savy, or 4e fans being more web savy. For instance, the composition of the players in my last campaign: 5 programmers and web devs including 2 for Cisco and one for Google, and myself the oddball out cell biologist and freelance writer. However of them, I'm the only one that has any large presence on any D&D forum online. They've got as large or larger of a web presence and time spent online as I do, but they simply don't or don't care to read and talk about it online to the same extent. Regardless of edition preference, I think the vast majority of D&D players don't post online in D&D forums or blogs except for the truly hardcore ones, and I'd be cautious about giving any one edition's fans credit for being more prone to follow D&D online. I think every edition's fans are largely in the same boat here.
As for my players, as an aside from the above, they rejected 4e during the initial rollout. They're aware of 5e, but haven't paid it much attention. They're still playing a 3e/3.5 hybrid in one game, a Shadowrun 3rd game, and at some point an Eclipse Phase game and when I've got the time to plan and run it, a PF game.
As for the composition of these forums, I'm strongly inclined to agree with The Jester's comments earlier in the thread. After the first year or two of 4e, a large number of longtime posters went elsewhere or downgraded how much time they spent here. The place was downright hostile to those who didn't like 4e, and the forum reorganization likewise made it very clear that 4e was the only game in town. There was no D&D General Discussion forum, it was 4e General and everything else was lumped in less visible corners. Without getting into the drama during that time regarding the then community liason, the place was hostile and unpleasant, especially so for those who didn't particularly care for 4e. A lot of folks bailed, and thus the community that remained is arguably much more 4e centric and positive versus the wider D&D community online and off, which of course is going to skew forum feedback on 5e (or with a segment of the community create drama at any mention of PF).
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
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5 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 2:02AM
#65
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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Shemeska not that many of the old crowd left. A few still hang around in the D&D older edtion section.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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