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"subjective"

Hey, everyone, can we avoid this word in this discussion? Yes, a good deal of what we're discussing is subjective. However, even subjective views and opinions have reasons behind them, and some are still better than others, so trying to point out over and over again how something is subjective really isn't productive. Remember, exactly the reason that this article was written and wanted to provoke the discussion that it did was because, as subjective as it may be, it's still looking for the best answer. Subjective things are still worth discussing and even debating.

Jan 31, 2013 -- 5:50AM, wrecan wrote:

None of the faces in any of the covers have any particular expression, but it's only the faces on the 1e cover you think appear bored.  To me, this indicates that you are misidrecting your criticism.  It's not the faces.  It's the situation.  You prefer pics of people in or abotu to get into combat.  I don't have a particular preference for the action -- I want story.

Well, first of all, action and story are not mutually exclusive.
Second of all, I've said repeatedly that, while depicting combat is an example of how a cover scene could be made exciting and expressive, it is not the only one. I've given a few examples of non-combat scenes that I think would be perfect for the cover, and some of them have even been of post-combat looting scenes like the one depicted on the AD&D cover, so it's definitely not the situation that I am criticising but rather how the situation and the characters in that situation are being portrayed.
And, yes, it's not just the faces. Like I said, body language plays into it quite a bit as well and it part of what contributes to the faces on the AD&D cover looking so bored to me. That's why, even though it may be difficult to discern exactly what facial expressions some of the characters on other covers are portraying, it's easy for me to say that at least they're clearly no expressing boredom.

Jan 31, 2013 -- 6:28AM, Arithezoo wrote:

It doesn't start at the usual point, and gets the viewer to ask, "How did the characters get to this point?"

I could say the same thing about the 2E and 4E covers, though, and I could ask a bunch of questions about them similar to the ones that you're asking about the AD&D cover, so what is it exactly that makes the AD&D cover so "good" at this? Is it just because it has more set pieces?

Despite a complete lack of action, the scene conveys a sense of intense action that just concluded.

Would you have any idea that a combat scene took place a short while ago if not for the deal reptilian bodies? If the combat was really intense, shouldn't there be other signs of it? Why are no characters wounded? Why is nobody looting the corpses? Why does nobody look victorious or relieved? Why is there no blood on anybody's clothes? It could be argued that there was blood on the Fighter's sword, but even that we're catching after it's been wiped off. I can tell from the scene that there was combat, but I can't tell that it was intense. If anything, it looks like it was pretty easy.

Jan 31, 2013 -- 7:43AM, lawrencehoy wrote:

I see exhaustion. Which relays more of a "Wow, that was tough; let's see what we've gained from this battle, take a few minutes to rest up, and make some plans for what comes next."

See my above response. What is it that's making you think the battle was tough or even particularly noteworthy? If not for the Fighter cleaning his blade, I would doubt that the characters portrayed were even the ones who fought and killed the reptiles in the first place, and even that's not a great indication.

EDIT: Here's an alternative interpretation of the AD&D cover scene. The characters all have blank expressions because they've all been hypnotized into helping the evil lizardfolk cultists summon their death god. The two character in the foreground are reading not a map but a diagram of how to draw out the summoning circle, the one on the right pointing to where they'll start. The two "thieves" are actually just commoners retrieving the gems necessary to complete the ritual. The fighter is cleaning off a ritual blade, and the scene is devoid of any sign of struggle or other indicators of combat because the lizardfolk were voluntary sacrifices. The Wizard is old and frail, but the cult leader will use his arcane prowess when the ritual circle is completed to help summon the deity, so he's just standing around for now.

How conveniently you excluded my final paragraph, which relates the piece of art with what is the essence of D&D.

I excluded it because I didn't think that it needed responding to. I think that we agree on what the essence of D&D is, and I even agree that the AD&D cover is trying to portray it in ways that other covers since than haven't. We just disagree on whether the AD&D cover is doing a good job of it. When I see the AD&D cover portraying the essence of D&D, my reaction is "And why would I want that?", and that's what the crux of our disagreement is.

I won't agrue that you can...

Seems a lot of people sure are arguing that, though.

Jan 31, 2013 -- 7:48AM, wrecan wrote:

Here's another entry of mine (not my art, mind you. I can't draw)

I'd like this one to be a bit brighter so you can see the heroes better, but it conveys the proper emotions and story.

This is, like, almost perfect cover artwork. This is exactly the sort of thing that I meant when I said before that a piece did not have to include combat to be exciting and expressive. We can't even see their faces, but their body language speaks volumes. Absolutely stunning and an excellent expression of D&D as far as I'm concerned.

Jan 31, 2013 -- 2:02PM, Tevish_Szat wrote:

Jan 31, 2013 -- 1:10PM, crazy_monkey wrote:

Personal opinion...

To me, the perfect D&D cover is almost the cover to the 1983 Red Box basic set (re-used in the 4th Edition D&D Essentials basic set from 2010).

I say almost because it has a dragon in a dungeon vs. a PC but it should have a group of PCs (four, covering the classic four archetypes).

That would be my ideal PHB cover.

Just my two cents.         

Something like this?



Well... I guess that's only up to 2.

I like that design a lot, with four people. (And updated art, obviously). I think that a group of four clearly visible and differentiable people fighting a red dragon is the best possible image for an image-based cover. This is the PHB.