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Switch to Forum Live View analysis pack 121712 part 2
4 months ago  ::  Jan 29, 2013 - 12:36PM #1
Redda
Date Joined: Nov 3, 2012
Posts: 27

Hi, Redda here, and today we’re going to speak about classes


First of all, I don’t really like this “every character has 1000builds” because:



  1. This much number of builds gives less characterization, and too much hybridization


  2. Some builds are clearly better then others, so many of them can be trashed.



I’d rather prefer 1-3 CLEAR builds, distinguishing a class from another making them do different things.


Example :


Fighter => 1) tank (mitigation and  disrupting positioning focused) 2) heavy weapon dealer (direct damage focused, rush in and hit hard) 3) ranged fighter (focused on bows and with some decent mobility, not shareable with other specs)


Rogue=> 1) tricky/subtle (highest average damage possible but obtainable with positioning, far away from tank mom) 2) assassin (huge peaks but situational, standard damage a bit higher then standard). 


I’ll mark things as AK = absolutely keep (really good stuff), AM = absolutely modify (really bad stuff), MG = modify would be good (slightly bad stuff), NI = not really interesting (indifferent stuff)


CLERIC (overall satisfied)


MG = channel deception: the invisibility effect looks a bit lame. The effect should last up to the end of the cleric’s next turn (casting and attacking still brake the invisibility), or simply requiring no action.


MG = channel regrowth: from a regrowth I expect something to grow, to heal or similar. The skill name is just wrong. You can change it into “channel steel skin” or similar.


AM = rebuke undead: the skill states that I can have an army of “same number of hp dice as mine” mindless undeads. This looks too much op, resulting in master removing all the possibly undeads that can be charmed.


MG = spell slots: the spell slots are way too low. The funny thing of being a caster should be to have a variety of things and tricks to do with magic, while the cleric atm is bound to save slots for heals (if there isn’t somebody else caring about that). Using buffs like prayer or offensive spells or whatever is not worth that big heal sustaining the fight. You should absolutely increase the number of spell slots, and decreasing the spell effects. More spells but less powerful. 


FIGHTER (needs more characterization, less hybridization)


AM = overall: the fighter (as his name suggests) should be a fighting class, not a skirmisher one. Atm the fighter has many ways of customizing, many splicing the class with the rogue one. This results in an hybridization, and we don’t really appreciate that. A fighter should be a fighter, a rogue should be a rogue. The fighter has a couple of maneuvers that give him too much mobility, while the point is that he has to stand in the fray and fight. The class needs a little revamp, removing the “rogue” stuff.


AK = Feats like “hold the line” “charge” “shield bash” “protect” and such are really good and interesting, while the average dmg for a dps build is good. The dmg reduction provided by armor, parry and protect is also really good (that’s what I expect from a fighter)


MONK (overall really dissatisfied)


AM = overall: it looks like the monk has been built to be a versatile class. The point is that this versatility is quite best in everything. Best dmg (thou it rolls more dice to do it, so not really the best dmg but slightly higher than the other classes), best mobility (30feet blink? really?), close to best durability (fortunately fighter’s one is bigger), various immunity magic res and such, punch penetration to everything, stuns, aoe dmg…really, why don’t u add a “free coffee making” effect? The ki mechanic idea is not bad, still the number of uses is low and the effect they have are DEVASTATING. Too many static powerful buffs. NERF, totally.


NI = expertice die progression: typing error at lv 6 3d4 instead of 3d6


AAAAAAAAM = touch of stony doom: let’s translate this feat “If target elite mob fails a saving throw, everybody takes out blunting weapons and start pee on his head”. This feat should be absolutely removed, as its increase in damage is MASSIVE.


AM = heart stopping strike: maximize damage 4 times a day without any saving throw, nor special condition to trigger or whatever. Insane. Remove.


AAAAAAAAAAM = vengeful flame: XD XD XD XD XD XD XD now I’ll explain you how this feat works (at lvl 20). Monk goes completely alone into the fray, goes down, free 80 aoe dmg (no saving throw, no attack roll). Cleric (or random guy with 1hp cantrip feat) comes out and heals him for 1hp (assuming he’s not completely dead, and even if it was dead that 80free aoe dmg would’ve been fair enough), he gets up, goes down again, 60 free aoe dmg. Repeat process as long as you have ki. SERIOUSLY, DOES THIS LOOK NORMAL TO YOU??? Insane, remove.


MG = stone’s defense: let’s compare this skill to the fighter’s “equivalent” one => parry. Monk reduces damage to 0, fighter rolls. Monk’s dmg the next turn is equal, fighter’s one lacks expertise dice. FORTUNATELY the monk’s feat is limited by the number of ki points, still this remains a bit big. Maybe modify into “reduce the dmg by an amount of x” like 10 20 30.


AM = abundant step: best movement ever. Ultra effective positioning movement, giving the class the best mobility (while, in my opinion, the best mobility should be given to the rogue). Remove.


NI = path of stone’s endurance: in the description it’s written path of the storm’s endurance. Typing error.


ROGUE (totally needs more characterization, less hybridization)


AM = overall: the rogue class can be customized in many ways, some of them are way too far away from the concept of the class. The rogue (in my opinion, as always) should be a skirmisher class, dealing the best STATIC damage with a good positioning (that’s depending on the player’s skill to get it), with the drawback of the risk of getting caught and killed if acting stupidly. Too many skills gives him STRONG durability, while his mobility is too low for the class. Feint is not really developed in a good way. Lots of work to be done.


AM = artful dodger: tanky stuff, and op one. This should be removed from rogue’s list, or at least nerfed, like static +1 bonus to ac vs 1 target instead of advantage. I don’t really like this build, as dodge is already represented by dex (no need to add other stuffs named dodger or swashbuckler or whatever).


AM = iron will, distract (bad) , great fortitude, taunt (bad): these are CLEARLY tank stuff. TOTALLY out of the concept of rogue. Remove.


NI = acrobat: skill focus sneak? I don’t get why an acrobatic rogue should be skilled in sneaking.


AM = feint: feint is an absolutely interesting skill, developed badly. Personally, I would never use an action to make a contest I’m not sure to win against a creature, and if that succeeds the next turn I have only advantage (good for fueling sneak attack, but losing advantage I can also miss the target, wasting 2 actions into doing nothing). Feint should be a more reliable skill, consuming no action at all (or movement) and adding “something” to the contest, maybe with a “reduced damage drawback”.


Here it is a possible solution: feint (class feature) => in place of your movement action, you can use an expertise die (here it is the dmg reduced effect drawback, 1 dice less to add/multiply) to start a charisma vs wisdom contest against a creature that can see you. You can also expend any expertise die to improve your check’s result. If you win the contest, your next attack against that creature IN THE CURRENT TURN has advantage. Personally I would sacrifice a die (or more to be sure to get that advantage) and my movement to try a contest (note that it’s not an easy contest, as rogue’s cha isn’t usually the biggest stat).   


AM = sneak attack: from time to time, sneak attack is the most recognizable skill of a rogue. It’s sad to see that now it’s the worst skill in the pack (and not even a class feature), giving more drawbacks than advantages. First of all, getting advantage is not easy, and giving It up is a big sacrifice. That makes the skill really situational and hard to apply, while it shouldn’t be. The problem is not in the skill btw, but in the advantage itself. If getting advantage costs you an action, that action is not really worth the expertise dice x2, with the possibility to miss as well, trashing 2 actions with 0 results. If advantage becomes an easier option to get by rogues, sneak attack skill it’s correct like it is now, or maybe it could even be better if you add a trigger stating that you can’t do sneak attacks if near to an ally (so that the tank can’t save your ass if you get the aggro). It can be a good way to increase the standard damage, risking to take the mob’s attention and die (like it should be). The feint improvement is necessary to make this skill available, otherwise the only way to use it is to dual wield.  


MG = vanish: the point of vanish should be to disengage efficiently to gain advantage the next turn. Moving before hiding is not efficient, as you get caught by opportunity attacks. The movement should be available AFTER the hide, or should avoid trigger opportunity attacks.


WIZARD (not really satisfied)


MG = spell slots: the spell slots are way too low. The funny thing of being a caster should be to have a variety of things and tricks to do with magic, while the wizard has some “locked” spells to use, and can’t really “waste” slots to do other stuffs. The spells are good like they are now, poor slots but powerful spells, but having more slots dealing less burst damage would be funnier.


AM = magic missile: this spell is really boring and overpowered. Doesn’t matter who you are, a lv 1 mob or a lv 100 boss, you get the dmg from this crap anytime the caster wants. The best competitive monsters have resistances to elements and magic resistance, bounding the caster to go magic missile every turn (it bypasses resistances). That was really boring for our wizard, as he just shoot bosses to death with that only spell (1 maximized). Must modify, a spell without any attack roll like that shouldn’t be leveled up. EXAMPLE? Yo Asmodeus what’s up? We’re 3 lv 16 wizards, and we have disadvantage against you. Doesn’t really matter, take these 3 maximized magic missile, no saving throw so no magic resistance, no attack roll so no disadvantage, no immunity. (12*8)*3 => 288dmg => dead. Bad luck Asmodeus.   





 


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4 months ago  ::  Jan 30, 2013 - 3:55PM #2
pilgaard
Date Joined: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 106
Interesting thoughts - thanks for sharing the 'packs'
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