First, a disclaimer: I really like Next so far. Even if WOTC ignored everything I suggest in this thread, I still expect Next to be my favorite edition of D&D. That said, I worry it's falling short of its potential in certain ways.
The biggest problem I see is the way martial classes have been homogenized over the last few packets. When martial damage dice were introduced (as Combat Superiority), it was an awesome idea because it gave fighters something unique. More specifically, it gave them their own "resource" to manage, which recharged every round but forced the player to choose to focus his attention offensively (Deadly Strike), defensively (Parry), or in some other way via maneuvers. The fact that this dice pool was a limited resource meant that it was okay if a fighter putting all his dice in Parry was incredibly hard to kill, because it meant he wasn't putting out much damage; it was also okay if he dished out the pain, because doing so meant that he was more vulnerable to attack. And the maneuver system meant that he could gain real, powerful options to use in conjunction with, or in place of, those basics.
Unfortunately, Combat Superiority was a quick victim of its own popularity. They tried to expand the whole system to rogues, and when that seemed a bit too "samey," they took away maneuvers from rogues but kept the damage dice in place. And then, the biggest change of all, in this latest packet they made it so dice recharge every TURN - so in other words, you can use all your dice on bonus damage AND on Parry, since you parry as a reaction on someone else's turn.
This basically ruins the "resource management" aspect of these dice. Now there's no tradeoff between offense and defense. And it sounds like they're considering making things even worse next packet by basically making maneuvers work like skill tricks, so they take your whole action. (This would probably mean that you can't combine multiple maneuvers in one action.) At that point, maneuvers are basically just combat feats, and we're in essence back to 3e fighter design.
So I've complained about fighters a bit - let me shift the focus to other martial classes. See, the other downside of "martial damage dice" is that by giving all weapon-focused classes (at this point, that's fighters, rogues, monks, and barbarians) the same "base" damage, it becomes a lot tougher to differentiate them in combat. That's why Sneak Attack is now wimpy: as Mearls pointed out, bonus damage + advantage + MDD is way too powerful. It's probably also why the new barbarian has lots of abilities that let him throw caution to the wind to strike more accurately: if he just did a bunch of extra damage with Rage and/or Heedless Strike rather than gaining advantage, it'd throw their numbers out of whack. And hey, it's why the only maneuver in the game that does more damage than just adding all your dice to the attack, the monk's Flurry of Blows, is enough to make that class way more offensively powerful than any other.
Moreover, this model flattens out tactical options to an alarming extend. The rogue has always been a class that could put out impressive damage in just the right circumstances: backstabbing, sneak attacking, etc. But now, the highest-damage strategy for rogues is simply to walk up to a guy and stab him in the face with a basic attack every round. Fighters? Walk up to a guy and stab him in the face. Monks? Walk up to a guy and Flurry of Blows him in the face. Barbarians? Rage if you've got it, then walk up to a guy and... yeah. (Okay, this one kind of fits.)
My suggestion: first, they should make MDD refresh once per round, at the beginning of your turn, again. That brings back the basic resource-management aspect of them.
Second, they should scale them back for every class that's not a fighter. That way, a fighter going "all-out offense" does more damage than any other class does by walking up to people and stabbing them in the face - but at the same time, a fighter saving a die or two for Parry or Protect still does damage on par with other martial classes, ASSUMING those classes aren't Sneak Attacking or spending Ki points or raging or whatever. Now, this step may require some thinking. My personal preference would be just getting rid of MDD for non-fighter classes altogether, and instead just doing what 4e did and making ALL weapon attacks do 2W or 3W damage at a certain level if the math requires it. That way, non-fighters don't have to keep track of a halfass pile of damage dice that they can't even use for maneuvers. Fighter MDD would be on top of that. But even if they just give other classes a slower progression like they did clerics, that'd be an improvement.
Third, give those other classes their own ways to do more damage. Make it worth a rogue's while to scramble for advantage so they can get in a Sneak Attack (or whatever Sneak Attack alternatives they may have chosen). If we're going to have the entire basis of the Barbarian class be the "rage" ability (not my favorite idea), then give them a bonus to friggin' damage instead of a bonus to accuracy. Give monks enough Ki points to make them worth paying attention to, and let them use it for more powerful attacks. This way, those classes feel different in combat and have stronger incentives to make use of their own class-specific advantages.
That's why MDD's propagated; we've already got those, magic, and psionics, no more please!
I've seen a lot of people (including devs) say stuff like this and for the life of me I can't understand it. I haven't recommended a single NEW ability or system in this post. I've recommended that classes like rogues and monks that already have a combination of MDD and class abilities rely more on those abilities and less on MDD. (I also mention replacing MDD with added base weapon damage, but that's because I think that'd be SIMPLER than tracking MDD for classes that don't even get maneuvers.)
MDD is close to being a deal breaker just on principle.
Maybe I'm way off in a simple impression that it MDD is just patched failure. The chief responsibility of a RPG system is to define characters. How does uniform damage define anything? Its just there to make the math right. If arbitrary uniform damage is what you need to make the math work then that is an indication that something is still broken.
MDD is close to being a deal breaker just on principle.
Maybe I'm way off in a simple impression that it MDD is just patched failure. The chief responsibility of a RPG system is to define characters. How does uniform damage define anything? Its just there to make the math right. If arbitrary uniform damage is what you need to make the math work then that is an indication that something is still broken.
First, just to be fair I like MDD, but I think it needs work. I agree uniform damage is a no no, but it could morph over the next year into something great.
I would love to see all the warriors (Fighter, Monk, Barbarian, Ranger, paliden, swordmage) have the extra W's mike talked about before.
At level 3 all of there attacks can do 2 damage dice (so longsword is 2d8, short sword is 2d6) at level 6 it becomes 3W and level 9 4W at level 12 5W at level 15 6W, and level 18 7W. you can reduce the Ws to make addtional attacks, but not against the same target. So a level 9 fighter before feats or manevers every turn can choose to attack 1 target for 4d8+Str and magic, or attack 2 targets for 2d8+str and magic each or 4 targets for 1d8+str and magic each.
Then give rogues, clerics, and other 2nd teir combatants a lesser chart, something like at 5th 2W, at 10th 3W at 15th 4W at 20th 5W.
Then you can have sneak attack add extra D6's and the old x2 back stab each as diffrent choices for te theif.
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
MDD is close to being a deal breaker just on principle.
Maybe I'm way off in a simple impression that it MDD is just patched failure. The chief responsibility of a RPG system is to define characters. How does uniform damage define anything? Its just there to make the math right. If arbitrary uniform damage is what you need to make the math work then that is an indication that something is still broken.
First, just to be fair I like MDD, but I think it needs work. I agree uniform damage is a no no, but it could morph over the next year into something great.
I would love to see all the warriors (Fighter, Monk, Barbarian, Ranger, paliden, swordmage) have the extra W's mike talked about before.
At level 3 all of there attacks can do 2 damage dice (so longsword is 2d8, short sword is 2d6) at level 6 it becomes 3W and level 9 4W at level 12 5W at level 15 6W, and level 18 7W. you can reduce the Ws to make addtional attacks, but not against the same target. So a level 9 fighter before feats or manevers every turn can choose to attack 1 target for 4d8+Str and magic, or attack 2 targets for 2d8+str and magic each or 4 targets for 1d8+str and magic each.
Then give rogues, clerics, and other 2nd teir combatants a lesser chart, something like at 5th 2W, at 10th 3W at 15th 4W at 20th 5W.
Then you can have sneak attack add extra D6's and the old x2 back stab each as diffrent choices for te theif.
Maybe I need a 2nd grade explanation. W= weapon damage right? Why would anyone use anything but the best weapon for their ability score? Im sure you could balance this with weapon maneuvers and weapon traits though I have a pretty strong preference for handling it closer to the core with weapon speed, crit range and multiple attacks. I would rather maneuvers serve as learned abilities that are independent of system math. To put it simple I don’t want daggers to have special maneuvers just to make up for their lack of damage.
Why should it scale so high? 7W?? And why again is it uniform and arbitrary? I don’t mind if its slightly arbitrary like bounded accuracy. Maybe every ftr should get 2W by 10th level. After that shouldn’t it be left up to character development?
Maybe Im in the wool here. To me it seems obvious that we are using 3e/4e hp scales with single attacks which why you need big damage. This damage doesn’t add anything to the game. All it is, is a big number used to take down big hp. I look at it like this. If a high lvl monster has 120 hp you need ftrs that hit for 30+. If the same monster has 60 you are ok with basic weapon ranges and mods for ftrs that have exceptional base damage, exceptional crit damage, a high hit rate, multiple attacks, or even defenses that tie up the monsters attacks for an couple extra rounds.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
The biggest problem I see is the way martial classes have been homogenized over the last few packets....
The problem is not limited to the martial classes. All the classes have been growing steadily similar in structure, capabilities and effects. You may blame the Balance Brigade, which whines like a cat in a tornado about how "overpowered" mages are and demand that fighters get magic-like dice to deal damage apparently out of the ether, and then whine about how rogues need to do as much damage-per-combat as fighters in order to prove they're contributing, and then want even mega-uber-spells like Wish to be watered down to the point that the very mightiest mage on the planet can do no more damage with it than could a reasonably well-equipped tenth level fighter...
And then they complain that the classes are too bland and homogenized.
