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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 12:34PM
#171
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2012
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So, lets drop the "wizard" spell list completely, and create a "tradition" spell list. Same for cleric and domains. Yes, this would mean a fair amount of redundancy, but lists generally take up little space, and you could have a domain/tradition list as part of the spell definition, etc.
That's a super idea.
You mean like, a pyromancer tradition?
1 burning hands
2 produce flame
3 fireball
4 scorching ray
and so on
...or something like that?
Sounds good to me. Plus, it seems to fall into the 5e concept of themes and backgrounds that can speed up character making when you want to make an archetypical character. Gain advantage on said spells, in some way, maybe?
A rogue with a bowl of slop can be a controller.
WIZARD PC: Can I substitute Celestial Roc Guano for my fireball spells?
DM: Awesome. Yes.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 12:42PM
#172
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2005
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So, lets drop the "wizard" spell list completely, and create a "tradition" spell list. Same for cleric and domains. Yes, this would mean a fair amount of redundancy, but lists generally take up little space, and you could have a domain/tradition list as part of the spell definition, etc.
That's a super idea.
You mean like, a pyromancer tradition?
1 burning hands
2 produce flame
3 fireball
4 scorching ray
and so on
...or something like that?
Sounds good to me. Plus, it seems to fall into the 5e concept of themes and backgrounds that can speed up character making when you want to make an archetypical character. Gain advantage on said spells, in some way, maybe?
Thats all over the sorcerer bloodline and priest of the fire god.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 12:47PM
#173
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Wizards don't need to rapid-shot because they already have instakills/lockdown spells and area affects.
And yes their ability score bonuses would apply if they did since dexterity is an ability score that deals with ranged attacks and last i checked being a wizard didn't reduce your dexterity to 3.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 12:48PM
#174
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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Permanent power is the issue, furthermore magic opens up hundreds of improvs non-casters can't even attempt.
When will people understand that improvs cannot be made into a balancing factor unless codified to the point that they no longer count as improv?
I won't be playing D&D without spells that spark the imagination and provide launching points for improv. At this point, I'm looking forward to this kind of magic returning the D&D game.
It never left.
IMO, it did with 4e.
Rituals are in the book and they more or less cover that sort of open ended spell casting. Of course there were some noticeable MIA spells such as Wish.
Far more than simply Wish was missing (All the illusion and charm spells were either removed or nerfed). Yes, some spells became rituals and as a result couldn't be cast in combat, but that just added to the feeling that magic was dead in 4e.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 12:52PM
#175
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Far more than simply Wish was missing (All the illusion and charm spells were either removed or nerfed). Yes, some spells became rituals and as a result couldn't be cast in combat, but that just added to the feeling that magic was dead in 4e.
Was it strictly the removal of the game-breaking spells? Because I do believe that 4e should have released those in asupplement for those DMs who wanted to allow them.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 12:53PM
#176
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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You say dead I say "in line with the rest of the game rules and no longer working on it's own OP microcosm where the answer to everything is just more magic".
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 12:59PM
#177
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2005
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Wizards don't need to rapid-shot because they already have instakills/lockdown spells and area affects.
And yes their ability score bonuses would apply if they did since dexterity is an ability score that deals with ranged attacks and last i checked being a wizard didn't reduce your dexterity to 3.
The wizard doesn’t have those spells when it might be viable and interesting for a high dex wizard to attempt rapid shot. When they get those spells a ftr could be doing incredible things with rapid shot. That imo should be the design goal. That framework can be balanced and it allows the wizard to roleplay as something more than ray of cold spammer. If those future spells cause the wizard to be op beyond a high magic setting or DM’s intentions then that is a separate and more specific issue.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 1:00PM
#178
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You say dead I say "in line with the rest of the game rules and no longer working on it's own OP microcosm where the answer to everything is just more magic".
As a long time D&D player (started with AD&D) 4e was the first time where magic felt...magical.
Daily preparation, spell slots, spells that work 100% of the time no matter what, fire-and-forget? None of that was reminiscent of what spellcasters of myth and legend did.
4e gave us cool, bizarre, and interesting magical effects that actually felt like magic.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 1:17PM
#179
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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Far more than simply Wish was missing (All the illusion and charm spells were either removed or nerfed). Yes, some spells became rituals and as a result couldn't be cast in combat, but that just added to the feeling that magic was dead in 4e.
Was it strictly the removal of the game-breaking spells? Because I do believe that 4e should have released those in asupplement for those DMs who wanted to allow them.
Well some people call them game-breaking or broken spells, but never saw them that way. I liked role playing spells like Charm Person. My impression was that any combat spell that required DM interaction was labeled game-breaking.
It was also the fact that the entire wizard spell list from prevous editions was redistributed to other classes. For example, the wizard could no longer take Spider Climb because it was now a Warlock power.
That reminds me, at one point I wanted to recreate all 8 arcane schools in 4e. I found that all the spells, even those previously associated with the Abjuration school still existed in the game. The problem was that they were bolted on to the class and related ability scores.
I'm very happy that in D&D Next the spell lists sit outside of the class. This means that I'll be able to create new themes or even new arcane classes with little effort.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 1:36PM
#180
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2005
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As a long time D&D player (started with AD&D) 4e was the first time where magic felt...magical.
Daily preparation, spell slots, spells that work 100% of the time no matter what, fire-and-forget? None of that was reminiscent of what spellcasters of myth and legend did.
4e gave us cool, bizarre, and interesting magical effects that actually felt like magic.
I thought it felt less magical removing failure, components, with damaging atwills and gimmicky ability scores. And it was still just as vancian at its core.
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