|
4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 1:05PM
#11
|
Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
|
Centauri:
I guess if they know or should know what they're doing, and do it anyway it seems reasonable. On the other hand, if they couldn't have known of the consequences of their actions, then it just seems unfair. Or perhaps I'm projecting my behaviour-management style as a teacher; if you give Ss a fair warning about what the consequences of their behaviour and choices are beforehand then they don't feel resentment toward you (as much).
Kids you're teaching or raising are different than people you're gaming with. It's okay to put a kid in time out, or to take away priviledges, or to otherwise make life less enjoyable for the kid, because you're trying to teach them life lessons.
A fellow player isn't there to learn life lessons, but to have a fun time playing the game. There are "priviledges" and rewards that can be withheld within the context of the game, but at a certain point certain punishments can essentially remove the priviledge of playing the game at all. Even if a player knew that outcome could occur, there's really no reason or excuse for meting out punishment that makes the game frustrating to play. Make any sense?
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 5:47AM
#12
|
|
|
Centauri:
I guess if they know or should know what they're doing, and do it anyway it seems reasonable. On the other hand, if they couldn't have known of the consequences of their actions, then it just seems unfair. Or perhaps I'm projecting my behaviour-management style as a teacher; if you give Ss a fair warning about what the consequences of their behaviour and choices are beforehand then they don't feel resentment toward you (as much).
Kids you're teaching or raising are different than people you're gaming with. It's okay to put a kid in time out, or to take away priviledges, or to otherwise make life less enjoyable for the kid, because you're trying to teach them life lessons.
A fellow player isn't there to learn life lessons, but to have a fun time playing the game. There are "priviledges" and rewards that can be withheld within the context of the game, but at a certain point certain punishments can essentially remove the priviledge of playing the game at all. Even if a player knew that outcome could occur, there's really no reason or excuse for meting out punishment that makes the game frustrating to play. Make any sense?
I think, sometimes, it can be challenging for people to seperate the game from their social world. The DM tends to be looked at as the "leader," the one in charge, and that can cause serious issues when the format of the game is used to reinforce things in the social group.
For example, I ran a D&D game at a friend's house, and one of the players was nasty the whole session, argued with me on every roll, made snide comments as I was describing scenes, pretty much ruined the game for me and made everyone uncomfortable. After it was over and he had left, I said to my friend, the one whose house we were playing at and the one who invited this person to play, why she didn't say something.
"You're the DM," she said. "That's your job."
I pointed out if I invited everyone to watch a movie at my house and she picked the movie and a guest of mine kept bitching at her because he didn't like the film, I sure as hell would say something to him.
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 6:27PM
#13
|
Date Joined:
Mar 18, 2010
|
It sounds like you are putting far too much emphasis on what you want with the story. I know it seems kind of silly given all of the work you put in to getting a game going, but you must be extremely fluid when developing story with your group. Personally after my sessions I come up with a few amazing story lines and plots I would like my players to follow (and quite frankly, I'm blessed and yet cursed with a group that is happy to follow just about any lead I throw at them), but I ultimately have to stop myself. I have to question; what really would motivate their characters (and players themselves to a good extent) to follow this hook? Besides which, how in the heck will they react to what I am throwing at them right now? As stated before by others, you can never be truly ready for what players will do in your session - whether its them seeing things from a different perspective from your description, suddenly finding their new motivations, or really dozens of other factors. This will require a lot of pantomime and improvisational skills to be fluid like that, but with anything the more you exercise these skills the better you get at them. There are things you can do that will help you become good at these kind of skills as well; plenty of npc generators with attitudes on the net, npc names, tavern generators, and a whole bunch of links at the front of this forum to help source some "on the go" resources. Typically when I run a session, all I need is my small book of npc names (categorized by race, giving me around 200 names with all), some random tavern outlines (and dungeon), npc attitudes and motivations/backgrounds (quick two sentence versions), and a few pages of random treasure. You always want to have a few cool "fleshed out" npcs in your backpocket as well so you can introduce them as the game rolls on and you find a way to get them in there. Since you are just starting out though, think very very broad and not so specific when it comes to story. Give yourself and players some latitude by having a few story hooks. The last thing you want to do is lead your players by the nose - it often ends up even more tedious for you, and not so fun for them. Keep in mind, you will have your stamp on this game throughout most parts of the session whether you realize this or not. That is why it is so important to follow the PC's lead in developing story - gives them a chance to truly be involved in the game and ultimately create a whole bunch of fun. Seeing everyone lean forward and being completely engaged is one of the best feelings when you get things really rolling. I agree about finding a way to ditch your character. Whenever I have one (which is certainly rare), I get fairly attached to them. Heck, even some of the NPC's I come up with that I get attached to, the PC's counfound me and find a way to depose of them - but if it suites the story they are helping create, I'm all game. Keep in mind improvisational skills arent something that you either have or dont have. It can be learned and with practice, honed. Hope that helps, and good luck. Dont be afraid to talk a little before and/or after the session on what the players feel works and doesnt work. You dont have to interrogate them, but asking questions like" ...so what was fun?" - if they seem to have a so-so response, thats ok. As long as they arent saying there wasnt anything they didnt like, just amp up what you did from that session in to the next session. I tend to ask the players how things are after every 3rd session or so unless I notice something wholly out of place. Good luck man - welcome to the league of DM/GM. A thankless job that is more tedious and not fun to....ah just kidding! This is the best seat in the house! You are the orchestrator! 
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 2:05AM
#14
|
|
|
Check my sig for a couple of articles on why you shouldn't bother writing plots at all. It's more work for a lot of risk, and potential problems during play.
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 12:40PM
#15
|
Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2012
|
I was going to write a bunch of stuff, but Phlanex already said most of it.
I won't go so far as to say NEVER write a plot, but If you have an adventure that hinges on the players chomping down on plot-hooks, I would talk to the players first to see if they like the taste of the bait before I run the whole trot-line. In other words, I'm repeating and stressing the point that others have made here, but bears repeating... don't plan anything in advance based on the assumption that the player is going to do something. At best, you might plan some events based on what the characters have already done or are doing, but I recommend that you not make assumptions. Ask the players what they plan to do next and THEN make preparations for those actions.
As a graphic artist, I have advice for graphic artists for dealing with clients. The phrase applies to dungeon-mastering...
Don't marry your design. Even if it's PERFECT, the client (the player) won't always recognize that fact and inevitably want to change it.
A rogue with a bowl of slop can be a controller.
WIZARD PC: Can I substitute Celestial Roc Guano for my fireball spells?
DM: Awesome. Yes.
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 12:45PM
#16
|
|
|
Ask the players what they plan to do next and THEN make preparations for those actions.
Do you mean prepare on the fly for their proposed actions or stop the game to prepare (e.g. "What are we doing next week, guys?")?
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 1:01PM
#17
|
Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2012
|
Ask the players what they plan to do next and THEN make preparations for those actions.
Do you mean prepare on the fly for their proposed actions or stop the game to prepare (e.g. "What are we doing next week, guys?")?
I mean prepare BETWEEN adventures for what the players plan to do next week...
I try to end my adventures either on a cliff-hanger (in which case I already have sufficient material for the next session) or at a good stopping point where I can ask the players what they plan to do next session.
Players aren't going to begrudge the DM if there is an unplanned encounter and you need to take a few minutes to draw up what treasure the encounter has. Overall, while there are players at the table, the DM should either be improvising or working with what he/she has already worked out. Respect your fellow player's time, yea verily.
A rogue with a bowl of slop can be a controller.
WIZARD PC: Can I substitute Celestial Roc Guano for my fireball spells?
DM: Awesome. Yes.
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 1:39PM
#18
|
|
|
I mean prepare BETWEEN adventures for what the players plan to do next week...
I try to end my adventures either on a cliff-hanger (in which case I already have sufficient material for the next session) or at a good stopping point where I can ask the players what they plan to do next session.
Players aren't going to begrudge the DM if there is an unplanned encounter and you need to take a few minutes to draw up what treasure the encounter has. Overall, while there are players at the table, the DM should either be improvising or working with what he/she has already worked out. Respect your fellow player's time, yea verily.
Yes, and I used to do that, too. That mostly arose from a plot-based approach that I used for many years. It works fine as long as your players have bought into the idea that what they decided last week is what they're doing this week.
For what it's worth, if you use locations and situations instead of plots, you don't need to do that anymore because all the prep you'll possibly need to do for that location or situation will be done before you play (and as a side benefit represent a lot less work than the plot-based approach). Not counting stat blocks and maps/pogs (which I have to create because of online play), the specific discussion of the campaign only in the OP's original post is three times the word count of the prep for my last location which ended up being 16 to 18 hours of dynamic gameplay and was replayable for 3 different groups so far. And his post was probably just a brief overview of the work that he'll be doing for each individual session which will represent much more prep indeed.
That's a strong selling point for me, in addition to not having to worry about whether my players will be lukewarm on my plot ideas.
|
|
|
|
4 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 10:46PM
#19
|
|
|
If you're hung up on setting, I would suggest one of two directions:
(1) Collaborative world construction as per the DMG2
or
(2) Choose a trademarked setting that your players would want to adventure in (DarkSun, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, etc.) and follow those rules.
As a new DM, these are the two easiest approaches and the players' voices are heard.
The background you created is elaborate and interesting, but there is no way to tell if the players (or their characters while role-playing) would be interested in following your plan. Try not to plan the future too far in advance. Give a few hooks to figure out what the players are interested in pursuing and plan short encounters or modules from there.
btw, all DMs are guilty of planning too far forward and then through he natural course of party choices never see that future vision come to fruition. Just reign it in a bit...
|
|
|
