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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 3:41PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2013
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Spoiler:
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In the D&D next manual it states: "Dual Wielding: When you wield two weapons at the same time, you can attack using both of them using a single action, provided that one of them is a light weapon. You take a -2 Penalty to both attack rolls, and you use only the light weapon's damage dice to determine its damage, you add no bonuses to it. If both weapons are light, only one of them is limited in this way (you choose)." This is what it means, in the most LITERAL way possible. - You need to have at least 1 light weapon equipped to make a dual wielding attack. - Only the light weapon doesn't add the bonus - If both weapons are light, 1 of them does not have the -2 to attack rolls. - If both weapons are not light, then you add your strength modifier to both, because there is no light weapon. What other peoples interpretations are: Even with having two light weapons, you take -2 to both. If you wield 1 regular weapon and 1 light, you use the light weapons damage for both with no strength modifier. Dual wielding two non light weapons means you only get the regular damage, not the strength modifier. That interpretation means that the dual wielding feat is useless, and the only way to effectively dual wield is with two light weapons. Im just trying to look at what it means literally in the manual, right there. Edit: It seems that we've come to a consensus about what the ruling should actually say. The Text should be rewritten to:
Dual wielding: You may declare a dual wielding attack as an action when you wield a light or medium weapon in your mainhand and a light weapon in your offhand. You take a -2 attack penalty to both attack rolls when you attack with both weapons while dual wielding. When you attack, your offhand weapon does not apply its ability modifier during damage.
Dual Wielding Feat: You may wield a medium sized weapon in your offhand as if it was light.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 3:45PM
#2
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No. Because dual wielding feat allows you to wield non-light weapons. So you can have two longswords instead of two shortswords. So that's d8+d8 instead of d6+d6.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 3:48PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2013
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No. Because dual wielding feat allows you to wield non-light weapons. So you can have two longswords instead of two shortswords. So that's d8+d8 instead of d6+d6.
So d8+str and d8+str?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 3:54PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2007
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You always take the -2 on both attacks, wether you use 2 light weapons or one light and one medium.
If you weild a medium and a light weapon, the light one does not have your strength bonus
if you weild 2 light weapon, one of them does not add your strength bonus. In that case, you get to choose which one.
The dual weild feat allows you to use 2 medium weapons (you still need to choose which one gets the strength bonus and which doesn't)
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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 4:05PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2013
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You always take the -2 on both attacks, wether you use 2 light weapons or one light and one medium.
If you weild a medium and a light weapon, the light one does not have your strength bonus
if you weild 2 light weapon, one of them does not add your strength bonus. In that case, you get to choose which one.
The dual weild feat allows you to use 2 medium weapons (you still need to choose which one gets the strength bonus and which doesn't)
I personally believe you're right on the medium and light weapon, the light one does not have the strenght bonus. And the choosing of the light weapon strength modifier.
I disagree on the "you take -2 on both attacks regardless." because if both weapons are light, 1 of them is not limited by both the strength modifier and attack roll. Because they are conjoined sentences.
If the section read: "You take a -2 Penalty to both attack rolls. You use only the light weapon's damage dice to determine its damage, you add no bonuses to it. If both weapons are light, only one of them is limited in this way (you choose)." Then that would be correct. The way its written right now means that if you wield 2 light weapons, you get to choose which 1 is not limited by: "You take a -2 Penalty to both attack rolls, and you use only the light weapon's damage dice to determine its damage, you add no bonuses to it."
I also disagree on the dual wielding 2 medium weapons. There is no light weapon, therefore there is no light weapon to suffer the "no bonus str." condition, therefore, both weapons will get the +str bonus.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 4:21PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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You always take the -2 on both attacks, wether you use 2 light weapons or one light and one medium.
If you weild a medium and a light weapon, the light one does not have your strength bonus
if you weild 2 light weapon, one of them does not add your strength bonus. In that case, you get to choose which one.
The dual weild feat allows you to use 2 medium weapons (you still need to choose which one gets the strength bonus and which doesn't)
I personally believe you're right on the medium and light weapon, the light one does not have the strenght bonus. And the choosing of the light weapon strength modifier.
I disagree on the "you take -2 on both attacks regardless." because if both weapons are light, 1 of them is not limited by both the strength modifier and attack roll. Because they are conjoined sentences.
If the section read: "You take a -2 Penalty to both attack rolls. You use only the light weapon's damage dice to determine its damage, you add no bonuses to it. If both weapons are light, only one of them is limited in this way (you choose)." Then that would be correct. The way its written right now means that if you wield 2 light weapons, you get to choose which 1 is not limited by: "You take a -2 Penalty to both attack rolls, and you use only the light weapon's damage dice to determine its damage, you add no bonuses to it."
I also disagree on the dual wielding 2 medium weapons. There is no light weapon, therefore there is no light weapon to suffer the "no bonus str." condition, therefore, both weapons will get the +str bonus.
this is my interpretation as well.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 4:29PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2010
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You always take the -2 on both attacks, wether you use 2 light weapons or one light and one medium.
If you weild a medium and a light weapon, the light one does not have your strength bonus
if you weild 2 light weapon, one of them does not add your strength bonus. In that case, you get to choose which one.
The dual weild feat allows you to use 2 medium weapons (you still need to choose which one gets the strength bonus and which doesn't)
I personally believe you're right on the medium and light weapon, the light one does not have the strenght bonus. And the choosing of the light weapon strength modifier.
I disagree on the "you take -2 on both attacks regardless." because if both weapons are light, 1 of them is not limited by both the strength modifier and attack roll. Because they are conjoined sentences.
If the section read: "You take a -2 Penalty to both attack rolls. You use only the light weapon's damage dice to determine its damage, you add no bonuses to it. If both weapons are light, only one of them is limited in this way (you choose)." Then that would be correct. The way its written right now means that if you wield 2 light weapons, you get to choose which 1 is not limited by: "You take a -2 Penalty to both attack rolls, and you use only the light weapon's damage dice to determine its damage, you add no bonuses to it."
I also disagree on the dual wielding 2 medium weapons. There is no light weapon, therefore there is no light weapon to suffer the "no bonus str." condition, therefore, both weapons will get the +str bonus.
You may be right about the -2 penalty.
You are definitely wrong about Str bonus to both attacks. The intention of the dual wielding rules is to make sure you cannot (ever) add your Str bonus to damage twice. In 4e you couldn't add your Str bonus to two-weapon attacks at all, they're certainly not going to let you double down on your damage bonus now, it's just too powerful.
Obviously it's a very poorly worded rule. They've tried not to multiply the terms by referring to "main hand" and "off-hand," but they've ended up muddying the waters. If they fixed the wording so that the overall intent was clearer (re: the -2 penalty), and reworded the Dual Wielding feat to "You treat standard one-handed weapons as light weapons for the purposes of wielding two weapons," then things might make more sense.
I want "punch magic in the face" to be a maneuver
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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 4:41PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2013
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Souldoubt, I do agree that two medium weapons shouldn't have the strength modifier applied to both, but the way the rules states, it should. They need to fix this section ASAP. If there were a hotline to call the designer of the packet, I would call it right now.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 4:45PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2007
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The way its written right now means that if you wield 2 light weapons, you get to choose which 1 is not limited by: "You take a -2 Penalty to both attack rolls...
The wording is definitively unclear, we are on the same page here...this mess needs to be fixed
but you can't choose which weapon is affected by the "you take -2 on both attacks" that makes no sense as a sentence.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 27, 2013 - 4:49PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2007
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And even if this was what was intended, the literal meaning would still give us the same result: one of the weapons would grant you "-2 on both attack rolls"
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