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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 6:46PM
#191
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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How do bike racers have anything to do with D&D or Angels?
This has been a very confusing thread for me. Are we really saying the fighter is just a kid on a bike now?
No, the bike is a magic item and shouldn't be assumed, he's just a kid
And that is a better attempt.
Everything is relative.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 8:29PM
#192
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2008
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How do bike racers have anything to do with D&D or Angels?
This has been a very confusing thread for me. Are we really saying the fighter is just a kid on a bike now?
No, the bike is a magic item and shouldn't be assumed, he's just a kid
And that is a better attempt.
Everything is relative.
But ... he's really quite good with his BMX. 
OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player.
3E challenged the character, not the player.
Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM.
That's why I love 4E.
"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 9:04PM
#193
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Are we talking about 5e? whoever won initiative.
Pretty much agreed. Also, the question is irrelevant without details. The real answer would be the character who uses the better strategy.
Finesse Fighter: AC 14, HPs: 13, Attack: Longbow +5, Damage: 1d8+1d6+4
Wizard: AC 13 (w/ MA), HPs: 8, Attack: Magic Missile, Damage: 2d4+4
Wizard is not going to kill the Fighter winning the initiative. Fighter will stand a 65% chance of hitting the Wizard on her turn.
When Fighter wins the Initiative, before the Wizard can take 2 attacks, the Fighter will have an 87.75% chance of having hit the Wizard with one of two shots.
Seems to me the advantage is with the Fighter regardless.
Why is your wizard using crappy trap option magic missile? They should be using a save or die spell. For instance color spray would be an almost automatic 80% chance success. With it you could have the Fighter run away, attack himself, half his speed and give him disadvantage on attacks. Any of those would either instant win the fight or allow the Wizard to get far enough away that their 100' ranged at-will spells would easily kill the Fighter next round. Then of course there is Charm Person, which makes it where the Fighter can't target the Wizard with attacks. Then all the Wizard would have to do is distract him long enough to get off another spell like Burning Hands or Cause Fear which would instant win the Fight.
Your comparison is more like:
Dagger Fighter: AC 12 (leather), HPs: 13, Attack: Dagger +3, Damage: 1d4+1d6+3
Wizard: AC 13 (w/ MA), HPs: 8, Attack: Magic Missile, Damage: 2d4+4
Now a real comparison would look like:
Finesse Fighter: AC 14, HPs: 13, Attack: Longbow +5, Damage: 1d8+1d6+4
Intelligent Wizard: AC 15 (w/ MA and Shield), HPs: 8, Attack: Color Spray and Shield and Ray of Frost, Damage: Save or Suck, 1d10 + 5
I mean at least do an honest comparison...
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 9:07PM
#194
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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How do bike racers have anything to do with D&D or Angels?
This has been a very confusing thread for me. Are we really saying the fighter is just a kid on a bike now?
No, the bike is a magic item and shouldn't be assumed, he's just a kid
And that is a better attempt.
Everything is relative.
But ... he's really quite good with his BMX.
You should have made that he is better at riding a BMX than the Angel Summoner to put a highlight on some of the arguments that claim having something the other guy doesnt (but has far less need of makes them somehow balanced)
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 9:11PM
#195
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2008
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You should have made that he is better at riding a BMX than the Angel Summoner to put a highlight on some of the arguments that claim having something the other guy doesnt (but has far less need of makes them somehow balanced)
Nailed it.
Also, someone with search-fu might be able to figure this out better than me, but am I the first person to bring up Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit in the context of casters vs. non-casters on these boards? I'm the first person I KNOW OF to have done it, anyway.
Not that it's that braggable or anything, but if it's true, I'm just glad to have contributed. 
OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player.
3E challenged the character, not the player.
Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM.
That's why I love 4E.
"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 9:21PM
#196
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I agree, fighters are flavorless. They need more flavor and less bonus feats. They need features instead of the 'lazy' you pick whatever feat you want method. Sure, its nice every once in a while to gain a bonus feat but its the fighter build which is stupid, imo. Its one of the reasons I hate playing a fighter and normally would choose bararian over it. Barbarian gets rage, movement and other stuff instead. Fighters are lacking flavor- not really power. They dish out and withstand damage- its what they are for. But building a flavorless class turns a lot of players off and makes the class feel severely lacking.
Fighters are basically just people that don't have any kind of magical powers but are really badass anyway. If you don't want to be that character, I can understand why you wouldn't be interested in playing a fighter, but just because you don't think their flavor is interesting doesn't mean they don't have it.
<Ioun> they're apparently making a MolIsCool pp
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 10:35PM
#197
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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You should have made that he is better at riding a BMX than the Angel Summoner to put a highlight on some of the arguments that claim having something the other guy doesnt (but has far less need of makes them somehow balanced)
Nailed it.
Also, someone with search-fu might be able to figure this out better than me, but am I the first person to bring up Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit in the context of casters vs. non-casters on these boards? I'm the first person I KNOW OF to have done it, anyway.
Not that it's that braggable or anything, but if it's true, I'm just glad to have contributed.
I dont know off the top... I seem to have seen it on the Enworld too.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 10:40PM
#198
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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You should have made that he is better at riding a BMX than the Angel Summoner to put a highlight on some of the arguments that claim having something the other guy doesnt (but has far less need of makes them somehow balanced)
Nailed it.
Also, someone with search-fu might be able to figure this out better than me, but am I the first person to bring up Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit in the context of casters vs. non-casters on these boards? I'm the first person I KNOW OF to have done it, anyway.
Not that it's that braggable or anything, but if it's true, I'm just glad to have contributed.
I dont know off the top... I seem to have seen it on the Enworld too.
I did a search on tvtropes and angel summoner bmx...and got this page.
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Stor...
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 10:41PM
#199
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I don't remember who first did it in the context of Next but I think it was when I was on my "nerf all casters to uselessness rant so they can see what it feels like" back in the day (was that really only around a year ago Garth? seems like it was longer).
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