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4 months ago ::
Jan 25, 2013 - 5:13PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2011
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It's just a fun fact, really, but I noticed the D&D Next playtest packages are first D&D products since Rules Cyclopedia (1991) and the original Unearthed Arcana (1985) to use "he or she". That's 21 years (1991-2012)! The rest of AD&D line and even D&D (Basic and d20) from 1992-2012 eschewed it in favor of "he", "he/she" (depending on context and provided example) or (in 4e) "you".
I agree with the decision, but if I may ask - why "he or she" and not e.g., "singular they"? I'm asking out of sheer curiosity.
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Sidenote: "a note about pronouns" was part of AD&D 2e handbooks; it "explained" why the rules are written only with male pronoun. If I'm not mistaken, it first appeared in AD&D 1e, in one of Survival Guides from 1985-1986.
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Edit: I stand corrected. The honor goes to 4th edition rulebooks, and the manner of using "you" referring in equal measure to player and the character is still in use in D&D Next playtest packages.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 25, 2013 - 5:42PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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gender-neutral pronouns are a little trickier to use than "he or she".
i'm also a big fan of the decision to ditch the exclusive use of the male pronoun. the little sidebar in the 2e books didn't help at all with how exclusionary that book read.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 25, 2013 - 6:03PM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Singular "they" is still technically grammatically incorrect. "You" suffers from the implicit pushiness of 2nd person rhetoric. "One" is too formal.
English lacks a singular, gender-neutral, 3rd-person pronoun, so I usually recommend to students that they pluralize the entire mess when they can.
What I hope to see is a return to the play-examples which read like scripts that you could find scattered through the older rule books. Hilarious and useful both.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 25, 2013 - 10:16PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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Singular "they" is still technically grammatically incorrect.
No, it is perfectly grammatically correct (feel free to check a dictionary or wikipedia). A lot of people have trouble grasping that, though, because it's not what they initially learned in elementary school. Similarly, a lot of people think that it's incorrect to split infinities or to end a sentence with a preposition.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 25, 2013 - 10:28PM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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gender-neutral pronouns are a little trickier to use than "he or she".
it
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4 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 1:04AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2012
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Singular they is technically incorrect, but honestly it is the way we all talk and have for decades, by most definitions of language it is grammatically correct.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 5:13AM
#7
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As Crimson points out, the singular they is grammatically correct. Actually, it preexists concerns about gender and comes into existence because of concerns about number. For example, “Whoever it is, they better speak up.”
The custom of referring to an indefinite person by the singular they is as old as the English language itself. The custom of referring to “he” for indefinite was mostly a recent fad.
“Generic he has been a preference in usage [since the 1800s], not a binding grammatical "rule", as Thackeray's use of both forms demonstrates. The alternative to the masculine generic with the longest and most distinguished history in English is the third-person plural pronoun. Recognized writers have used they, them, themselves, and their to refer to singular nouns such as one, a person, an individual, and each since the 1300s.”
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4 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 5:26AM
#8
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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4 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 5:29AM
#9
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The problem with “s/he” is, it reads as “she” and seems equally sexist.
Plural “they” seems the most natural answer, then switching to “one” when needing to specify a single individual.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 26, 2013 - 6:15AM
#10
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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Yes, Haldrik. That was part of the joke.
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