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5 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 3:37PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2006
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Discussing the plausibility of a mundane fighter killing a dragon with Steely Dan in another thread I realized that there are probably different opinions about how to narrate high level fighter exploits. What is according to you the archetype of a 20 th level fighter (30th for those who play 4e)? For me it's Thomas from the Riftwar saga: no super-sayan power, but superman strength, speed, stamina and mobility.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 4:46PM
#2
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Superman with a lowecase s, intentionally, I presume? If you mean they should have Charles Atlas Superpowers, I agree. Also, I think in cases where the game is an abstraction, they shouldn't be limited. Such as hit points, hitting, defending and such. One of the things in the unfairly disparaged Tome of Battle, was Iron Heart Surge - at least, when you interpreted it in a sane fashion, instead of sticking to RAW, too much. I always thought it was the sort of a thing an action hero should get for free at around level 10 or so.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 5:11PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2012
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Superman with a lowecase s, intentionally, I presume?
If you mean they should have Charles Atlas Superpowers, I agree. Also, I think in cases where the game is an abstraction, they shouldn't be limited. Such as hit points, hitting, defending and such.
One of the things in the unfairly disparaged Tome of Battle, was Iron Heart Surge - at least, when you interpreted it in a sane fashion, instead of sticking to RAW, too much. I always thought it was the sort of a thing an action hero should get for free at around level 10 or so.
I'm not sure about Superman buuut the idea is sound. Fighters don't really translate well into modern "super heros"... More classical heros I guess..
Sadly so many people hate Tome of Battle before they read it since it is "magical mundane" to them. I love the idea of a hero or antagonist that can shrug off anything in order to save their allies or the person they are trying to protect.
Classic...
Really the only problems with Iron Heart Surge is that there are things that they called "effects" when they shouldn't have. Like gravity... Yeah or the Sun...
A level 20 fighter should be the deadliest person alive when they have a weapon (or random item) in their hands. A level 20 fighter shouldn't have to worry about hit points or being dominated. Sure the Fighter may not be able to fly or to summon a creature... He should be so badass that he is what is summoned and instead of flying he just jumps (or if there is something in the top of building... He just knocks the building down).
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5 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 5:14PM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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The way this game progess. Once you are a 20lv fighter, you pretty much a super sayian.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 5:55PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Really the only problems with Iron Heart Surge is that there are things that they called "effects" when they shouldn't have. Like gravity... Yeah or the Sun...
That's only half of the problem. It's the half that's easier to ridicule, but the half that matters in play is the OTHER half.
It takes an action to use. So you can't use it when stunned, dominated, or dazed. You can't use it to fight off petrification by pure force of will, because you'd need to be able to use it as a reaction to do so, and you can't.
Basically, Iron Heart Surge is a good idea, with a completely screwed up implementation. The idea is fine, but the implementation makes it work against things it shouldn't work on, and stops if from working on the exact things it should be BEST against (like domination).
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5 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 6:07PM
#6
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I want to see MDD capped at 3d6 or maybe 4d6 max and the fighters be given encounter powers instead.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:06PM
#7
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Honestly erleni, I think Tomas Ashen-Shugar isn't a straight fighter, no way, no how, he's clearly a Gish of great power channeled through his martial elements (as opposed to Pug). Now his son Calis (IIRC) is a straighter example of an epic fighter or a couple of the mercenaries mentioned in the Hall between worlds although we don't get direct demonstrations of their capabilities. Regretably, neither Arutha nor Guy du-Bas Tyra reach the heights we require although Gorath might?
Personally, when I look for examples of what I consider the height of Fighter excellence, I look to mythical heroes such as Achilles, Heracles, Beowulf, Cu Chulain, Roland, Lancelot, Gawain, Cei (Sir Kay in his original Welsh form, look that bad boy up). From Fiction, Conan (REH original only baby, try to imagine what some of his feats of strength truly require). Regrettably Kane, Elric and *blech*Rand al-Thor don't fit but Naga (Heather Gladney's work), Tempus (thieve's World), Jubal (same), and Mandorallan (David Eddings) come to mind.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 25, 2013 - 1:00AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2012
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Discussing the plausibility of a mundane fighter killing a dragon with Steely Dan in another thread I realized that there are probably different opinions about how to narrate high level fighter exploits. What is according to you the archetype of a 20 th level fighter (30th for those who play 4e)? For me it's Thomas from the Riftwar saga: no super-sayan power, but superman strength, speed, stamina and mobility.
Ahh Ashen-Shugar. One of my favorites personalities from any fiction wiriting.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 25, 2013 - 2:23AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
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All you need to kill a dragon is a magic sword and a good placement. Sigurd showed us.
And then warriors killing supernatural creatures aquire supernatural qualities.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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5 months ago ::
Jan 25, 2013 - 2:31AM
#10
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Thomas from the Riftwar saga
Don't know him.
Can you explain what he do? (for me he looks like the Captain America)
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