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Switch to Forum Live View Poll on what would be best for human racial abilities
4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 5:28AM #1
kezzek
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 1,198
Here is the current playtest iteration for humans:
Ability Score Adjustment: One starting ability score of your choice increases by 2, and all your other ability scores increase by 1.
Size: Medium.
Speed: 30 feet.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common.

I prefer a system which separates inherent race physiology, culture, and environment so I am rewriting human racial abilities as this:

Choice 1 (as current playtest)
Physiology:
Medium size, speed 30, +1 to 2 highest ability scores
Culture:
+1 to 3 lowest ability scores, You can speak, read, and write Common.
City Environment (Subtype):
+1 to one ability score, +1 to 3rd highest ability score

I think many people are not satisfied with the human abilities.  Some think they are overpowered.

I want everyone to vote on what they think is the best racial abilities for a city dwelling human.  I am limiting the choices so that it can be an effective poll but you are welcome to add your own choices later in the thread after you've voted for one of the choices given.

Human Physiology:
Choice 1: Medium size, speed 30, +1 to 2 highest ability scores
Choice 2: Medium size, speed 30, one bonus feat
Choice 3: Medium size, speed 30, +1 to highest ability score, one bonus skill
Choice 4: Medium size, speed 30, increase skill die for all trained skills by one die size



Human Culture:
Choice 1: +1 to 3 lowest ability scores. You can speak, read, and write Common.
Choice 2: weapon training (any one), one bonus skill.  You can speak, read, and write Common plus one local dialect
Choice 3: weapon training (swords, crossbows). +1 to 2 lowest ability scores. You can speak, read, and write Common plus one local dialect
Choice 4: weapon training (any one weapon), persuasion skill.  You can speak, read, and write Common plus one local dialect



City Environment (Subtype):
Choice 1: +1 to one ability score, +1 to 3rd highest ability score
Choice 2: +1 to one ability score, one extra knowledge or profession skill
Choice 3: +1 to one ability score, gather rumors skill
Choice 4: +1 to one ability score, sense motive skill



See also:
community.wizards.com/kezzek/blog/2013/0...

Feel free to provide other ideas.
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4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 5:32AM #2
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,513
I think "3rd highest" and "3 lowest" are quite clumsy.

Getting a free feat is more powerful then the stat's would be.  Considering you only have 4. 

Also, many of the things you are offering (feats, skills) are optional.  And should not be core.
guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 5:38AM #3
Mithrus
Date Joined: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 3,233
Free skill or feat isn't a good core racial ability (both are optional). I do like the skill die increase feature. I'd also rather not see humans get more ability mods than other races do (I'd rather not see ability mods at all for races, but that's a separate issue).
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4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 5:39AM #4
kezzek
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 1,198

Jan 23, 2013 -- 5:32AM, mellored wrote:

I think "3rd highest" and "3 lowest" are quite clumsy.



I couldn't find a better way of saying it and dividing the current human abilities into 3 categories.

Jan 23, 2013 -- 5:32AM, mellored wrote:

Getting a free feat is more powerful then the stat's would be.  Considering you only have 4. 



I disagree.  Many people would choose a feat to increase their highest ability score by one point.  In this case it is increasing your 2 highest ability scores by 1.

Jan 23, 2013 -- 5:32AM, mellored wrote:

Also, many of the things you are offering (feats, skills) are optional.  And should not be core.



While specialties and backgrounds exist, feats and skills do also.  The opportunity to pick from them as a racial ability is not a gross distortion of available options.

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4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 7:54AM #5
kezzek
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 1,198

Jan 23, 2013 -- 5:32AM, mellored wrote:

I think "3rd highest" and "3 lowest" are quite clumsy.



On 2nd thought I could have divided it up like this.


Choice 1 (as current playtest)

Physiology:

Medium size, speed 30, +1 to Con and Wis

Culture:

+1 to Str and Cha, You can speak, read, and write Common. +1 to one additional abilty score of your choice.

City Environment (Subtype):

+1 to Int and Dex
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4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 7:57AM #6
kezzek
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 1,198

Jan 23, 2013 -- 5:38AM, Mithrus wrote:

Free skill or feat isn't a good core racial ability (both are optional). I do like the skill die increase feature. I'd also rather not see humans get more ability mods than other races do (I'd rather not see ability mods at all for races, but that's a separate issue).



I prefer that all ability score mods come from environment (subtype) and that every environment is potentially open to every race at the DMs discretion.

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4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 8:03AM #7
GageEndal
Date Joined: May 2, 2012
Posts: 76

Choice 1: Medium size, speed 30, +1 to 2 highest ability scores



This one I'm totally against. It's way too 4th edition to me where you're trying to min/max everything to an almost out of control level. 

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4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 8:10AM #8
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,513

I disagree.  Many people would choose a feat to increase their highest ability score by one point.  In this case it is increasing your 2 highest ability scores by 1.


In previous editions, sure.

As things currently stand.  I'd gladly sacrifice -1 to a stat for a feat.  Considering it can net you something like a quickened spell, or a good HP boost, or damage resistance.

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 8:24AM #9
Qmark
  • vitriol and virtue
Date Joined: May 18, 2002
Posts: 16,540
+1 any Attr, +1 any Attr (or +2 any Attr).
Weap prof: pick one, or Armor prof: upstep.
Additional skill, if used.
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4 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 8:28AM #10
Mithrus
Date Joined: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 3,233

Jan 23, 2013 -- 7:57AM, kezzek wrote:

Jan 23, 2013 -- 5:38AM, Mithrus wrote:

Free skill or feat isn't a good core racial ability (both are optional). I do like the skill die increase feature. I'd also rather not see humans get more ability mods than other races do (I'd rather not see ability mods at all for races, but that's a separate issue).


I prefer that all ability score mods come from environment (subtype) and that every environment is potentially open to every race at the DMs discretion.


Except using +1 mods when the core mechanics all but ignore odd scores makes any source of +1 to ability scores problematic. This is compounded by supporting point-buy systems. IMO, have classes give a +2 bonus to a choice of ability scores, and let race give other features.

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I am White/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

I am both orderly and instinctive. I value community and group identity, defining myself by the social group I am a part of. At best, I'm selfless and strong-willed; at worst, I'm unoriginal and sheepish.
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