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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 8:36PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 8:37PM
#32
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That does not help, no ending/target squares are mentioned.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 8:45PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
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Regardless, Mark of Storm is a stupid effective feat, and far beyond the perks of most feats in the game.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:23PM
#34
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Mark of the Storm, broken? Man, this explains so much about that scrubby mindset. That's some heavy duty LSM you got.
As for the second point, spoilers man: that applies to your take on the rules. If you want to convince us that it doesn't work like we think it does, post rule quotes and explain them in painstaking detail so we can see how it all works out. Otherwise, there is no point in yelling about how it doesn't work that way - the onus is on you to prove it, not on us to listen to you.
It is broken. You and the forums need to get over its use being acceptable, and DM allowing Dragonmarks is asking for OP characters requiring even more effort to challenge, or you can just not allow terribly balanced feats and let players like you not invite us to your pity party.
I do kinda agree with Bob about the whole Shield Push issue, "I took a feat/power, so now you can't shift away from me if you're marked" but again, that's a problem with the 6 game elements that add forced movement to a MBA all being too good.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:29PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
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Mark of the Storm, broken? Man, this explains so much about that scrubby mindset. That's some heavy duty LSM you got.
As for the second point, spoilers man: that applies to your take on the rules. If you want to convince us that it doesn't work like we think it does, post rule quotes and explain them in painstaking detail so we can see how it all works out. Otherwise, there is no point in yelling about how it doesn't work that way - the onus is on you to prove it, not on us to listen to you.
It is broken. You and the forums need to get over its use being acceptable, and DM allowing Dragonmarks is asking for OP characters requiring even more effort to challenge, or you can just not allow terribly balanced feats and let players like you not invite us to your pity party.
I do kinda agree with Bob about the whole Shield Push issue, "I took a feat/power, so now you can't shift away from me if you're marked" but again, that's a problem with the 6 game elements that add forced movement to a MBA all being too good.
The problem is that this isn't really true. Not when Pinning Challenge exists, or when you can apply slows to targets at-will, or find ways to straight up deny shifting.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:34AM
#36
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Are you seriously equating forced movement negating a shift on top of everything else it's used for to dropping your AC and Ref by 2 (you're a better target) to immobilize on MBAs (allies are a worse target), at-will slow, and "target cannot shift"? Stay away from me, I don't want to pick up the LSM that's going around.
I'm actually reversing my opinion on the shift issue, there's nothing saying you have to declare what square you're going into when you say you're taking the action, since otherwise Forced Movement can break Shifts and Teleports and takes 2 squares out of a Walk, which is absurd.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 1:19AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
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Immobilization equals proning, which equals attack penalties and access to headsman's chop, possibly permanently depending on the party. This all translates to 'your AC and Ref don't actually drop at all and your Fort and Will go up against challenged targets', which is pretty handy if you ask me. Pinning Challenge is a crazy great feat because it makes so many other things that are situational much easier to apply. There's no denying forced movement is super handy, but it's not like it doesn't have competition, plus it costs you your weapon enchant on a fighter, which you can use for equally good things. It's not like it's a freebie.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 6:02AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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I'm actually reversing my opinion on the shift issue, there's nothing saying you have to declare what square you're going into when you say you're taking the action, since otherwise Forced Movement can break Shifts and Teleports and takes 2 squares out of a Walk, which is absurd.
This was my thinking on the matter. It definitely falls under the "expect table variance" category. Most DM's i've played with declared the shift move by actually moving into a square but i could see them just as easily saying "the random enemy next too you, Mighty fighter, is wary of your presence next to him and he decided to step away from you to rethink his situation. He is going to shift so you may interrupt this action."
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 7:42PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
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I'm really at a loss to see how interpreting Mobile Challenge and Shield Push as actually being functional is somehow so overpowered. Should a fighter not be able to lock one guy down per round at the cost of his immediate action? Keep in mind by shifting away from his other marks a Fighter is basically letting them do whatever they want with no punishment. I don't know about you, but in my games we fight multiple enemies at a time.
And when forced move interrupts can negate entire attacks it's hard for me to get upset about 2 squares of a walk action.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 24, 2013 - 8:39PM
#40
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I'm actually reversing my opinion on the shift issue, there's nothing saying you have to declare what square you're going into when you say you're taking the action, since otherwise Forced Movement can break Shifts and Teleports and takes 2 squares out of a Walk, which is absurd.
I can't be asked to dig it up, though Spaceinvader might have a link, but there was an extensive Rules Q&A thread about this exact issue. There are actually numerous game elements which depend on declaring a destination square to be functional (like Polearm Gamble), they need to know where you are moving to prior to you actually moving. I am not (and was not in that thread) willing to go to the extreme that once you've declared your square nothing can change it and if you can't get to that square you're SOL, but it seems very reasonable to not randomly break a bunch of game elements and say you have to specify which square you are intending to move to, even if a bunch of stuff interferes after that and you have to pick a new square.
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