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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:20AM
#51
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Create 3E-style multiclassing that creates balanced characters within reasonable mixtures of class levels, if not all such mixes. In other words, we might not get a fighter 19/wizard 1 right, but a fighter 3/wizard 2 should feel like a fully effective character.
This doesn't bode well. Why is one mixture "reasonable" and not the other? Why should a Fighter 19/Wizard 1 be less effective than a fighter 3/wizard 2? If they can't make the multiclassing rules work in such a way that any combination of classes is effective, then they need to find a better way.
Yeah, I have to admit that worried me too.
Sounds a lot like "oops, you ruined your character" will be a risk...
Again.
If you can't be bothered to read their warnings and ruin your character, that's your fault.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:22AM
#52
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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5E multiclassing is based on 3E's model, so it has already failed completely and utterly.
That's like saying that since modern cars are based on horse drawn wagons, they have failed completely and utterly. They are not duplicating 3e's system, so you have no factual basis for your declaration.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:22AM
#53
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uggghhh...I'll try to explain it differently...I am not suggesting bringing back the differnt xp tables for diff classes...that was stupid.
I am, sorta.
Identical tables for each class, but a player can distrubute earned XP as desired among any of his or her classes.
All such a system needs is a standardized buy-in mechanic for gaining a new class, and a way to prevent a player starting with seventeen or so classes from dominating the first level or two of play.
Lol sorry I should have specified I was responding to Mandi...he thought I was suggesting I bring back the fact that some classes leveled faster than others in 2e...which was stupid...I was clarifying that it I wasn't saying that
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:30AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2007
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For you Facebook people, Rodney posted that he's thought of a possible solution to classes to make multiclassing work better.
In memory of wrecan and his Unearthed Wrecana.5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:30AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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@Qmark - Precisely! No one is suggesting that we go back to separate XP tables for each class (at least, I don't think so), just that the 2nd-level abilities of any class will always be worth 250xp (or whatever the final number is), so that a Fighter 7/Wizard 2 needs 16,250xp, not 25,000xp. My idea only differs in that you cannot spend XP on your main class until your multiclass reaches parity with it; ie, until Wizard is 7, you cannot raise your Fighter to 8. Otherwise, it'd be too easy to just spend 750xp and be an X/2/2/2 build of all four core classes.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:26AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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So its like gestalting form 3.5 but using a different xp table? Bounded accuracy ma work a bit better here. Back then I asked the PCs what sort of level adjustment they would suck up for a gestalt character in a normal game. LA +1 was a no brainer, LA2 the would think about it and LA3 was a no way as you fell to far behind.
Seems a blend of 3rd ed and 2nd ed. Slower class progression for MCing but all of the classes level the same speed.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:28AM
#57
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uggghhh...I'll try to explain it differently...I am not suggesting bringing back the differnt xp tables for diff classes...that was stupid.
Using the 5e exp table you can see that it takes 250 xp to get to lvl 2....now if your usinf 2e multiclassing you have 2 classes. So say a Single Classed fighter and a 2e style multiclass (or hybrid) wiz/rogue kill a goblin worth 20 xp both players get 10 xp each so there charcetr sheets would show this
Fighter: 10 xp/250xp
Wiz 5 of 250/Rogue 5xp of 250xp
So after a few more battles they both get up to 250xp
Fighter 250xp/250xp woot level up
Wiz 125 of 250 xp/ rogue 125 of 250
now again a few more battles, roleplays,etc. there now at 500 xp
Fighter: 500xp of 950xp
Wiz 250/250x/ Rogue 250/250 so now finally woot level 2 in both wiz/rogue.
See same xp tables but the multiclass splits its xp in two but the reason it doesn't fall too far in leveling is because of the way xp for each higher level increases.
Now with that explained just know that my prefered style of multriclassing is 3e with the ability to apply templates as the Dm sees fit (ie.Wiz/Rogue can be granted illusionist and/or Assassin templates...works similar to 2e kits or 4e themes) I just think there should be optional rules availible
Another possibility for 2e style multiclassing is to forget the split xp have them level normally but have them follow a different leveling table (ie. Multi-class wizards gain spells slower and don't end up with the high level spells) IOW you would be a Level 1 Wizard/Rogue and need 250xp like normal to reach level two but you need level say 4 or 5 to gain level 2 spells as opposed to level 3 and at Lvl one you have 1 cantrip and 1 level 1 spell slot (and rogue stuff) instead of 3 cantrips and 2 lvl 1 spell slots of course you can offset this with feats such as Arcane dabbler but of course that means giving up other feats such as maximize.
And that giant explanation is why I think the Hybrid system is better (though similar).
If only because you don't need to worry about development at all, the character develops organically.
Though, admittedly, in an environment of differentiated systems it IS harder.
But Hybrid handled Psionics and Essentials classes (both VERY different from AEDU) without problems.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:36AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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Hybrid won't work at all in D&DN though as the classes do not have a unified power structure. The unified power structure was a major turn off for many who did not like 4th ed.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:37AM
#59
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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My idea only differs in that you cannot spend XP on your main class until your multiclass reaches parity with it
seems... incredibly arbitrary.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:57AM
#60
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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Hybrid won't work at all in D&DN though as the classes do not have a unified power structure. The unified power structure was a major turn off for many who did not like 4th ed.
No, the unified power structure just made the process of hybrid multiclassing easier. It's not required.
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