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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 6:35PM
#21
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Why not have both?
I'd like to see the 4th style "dipping" style of multi via feats supported too.
It didn't work for everything but it worked well for some concepts.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:02PM
#22
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Personally I'd like to see 2 style of multi-classing with 2 styles of augmenting them
3e style Multiclassing (with the modified class tables that Mike Mearls mentioned)
2e Style Multiclassing
Than to augment them use prestige classes (as 3e) and something similar to 2e Kits/4e themes except disconnected so its works more like a template that can be earned at any time based on various achivements (ie. slay a dragon get dragon slayer template...gets better as you slay dragons)
Than you can augment you build...so for example if you take the 2e style multi and make a rogue/wizard and than meet the prerequisites and you could become a Assassin/Illusionist...I can imagine conjuring an illusion bridge across a gap...boom assassinated :P
I diliked the "multi-class" feats in 4e but I don't mind feats like arcane dabbler
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:07PM
#23
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I think they're already taking a stab at dabbling-via-feats with the martial training and hedge wizard type feats in the playtest - not bad so far IMO.
I'm curious how hybrid multiclassing would work in next. You can't just alternate powers like 4e hybrids because the classes aren't isometric AEDU. IIRC in 2e you split all xp between your classes, but since each class had different xp charts for leveling that meant you leveled them up at different times. In Next that would mean waiting twice as long to level and then gaining a level in each class when you do. Wouldn't it be easier to just do it 3e style after level 1 and alternate between two classes?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:11PM
#24
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Personally I'd like to see 2 style of multi-classing with 2 styles of augmenting them
3e style Multiclassing (with the modified class tables that Mike Mearls mentioned)
2e Style Multiclassing
...
I diliked the "multi-class" feats in 4e but I don't mind feats like arcane dabbler
I'd like to see both.
And if not for the anti-4th bias I'd suggest we called the latter "Hybrid" for clarity (as they are essentially the same thing).
Arcane Dabbler is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to see more of, and layers of, included. That is exactly what 4th Ed multiclassing WAS good at "just a little dip of this" and handled much better than 3.X style with one-level dips (barring front-loading abuse).
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:16PM
#25
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I think they're already taking a stab at dabbling-via-feats with the martial training and hedge wizard type feats in the playtest - not bad so far IMO. I'm curious how hybrid multiclassing would work in next. You can't just alternate powers like 4e hybrids because the classes aren't isometric AEDU. IIRC in 2e you split all xp between your classes, but since each class had different xp charts for leveling that meant you leveled them up at different times. In Next that would mean waiting twice as long to level and then gaining a level in each class when you do. Wouldn't it be easier to just do it 3e style after level 1 and alternate between two classes?
No it's completely different here's I'll show you
Normal progression Lvl 2 250 XP. Lvl 3 Requires 950, Lvl 4 requires 2,250
Level 2/2 requires 500xp
Using 3e multiclassing in DNDNext a wiz2/fighter2 requires 2,250xp...a Wiz10/Fighter10 takes 460,000xp
Using 2e multiclassing in DNDNext a wiz2/fighter2 requires 500xp......a Wiz10/fighter10 takes 112,000xp
So when a Single-class character is Lvl 20 the 2e style Multiclass is 16/16. so it doesn't get thew super powerful stuff from both classes but the combined mid-range stuff...in theory allows it to be competitive.
This is designed so the multi-class doesn't get worse and worse as the players level up
So no...its different.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:23PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2006
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Create 3E-style multiclassing that creates balanced characters within reasonable mixtures of class levels, if not all such mixes. In other words, we might not get a fighter 19/wizard 1 right, but a fighter 3/wizard 2 should feel like a fully effective character.
This doesn't bode well. Why is one mixture "reasonable" and not the other? Why should a Fighter 19/Wizard 1 be less effective than a fighter 3/wizard 2? If they can't make the multiclassing rules work in such a way that any combination of classes is effective, then they need to find a better way.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:25PM
#27
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Create 3E-style multiclassing that creates balanced characters within reasonable mixtures of class levels, if not all such mixes. In other words, we might not get a fighter 19/wizard 1 right, but a fighter 3/wizard 2 should feel like a fully effective character.
This doesn't bode well. Why is one mixture "reasonable" and not the other? Why should a Fighter 19/Wizard 1 be less effective than a fighter 3/wizard 2? If they can't make the multiclassing rules work in such a way that any combination of classes is effective, then they need to find a better way.
Yeah, I have to admit that worried me too.
Sounds a lot like "oops, you ruined your character" will be a risk...
Again.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:28PM
#28
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If they stick with the plan of having it modular they should be able to include both types...multi-classing, hybrids w/ prestiges classes and templates to augment (see kits or themes except granted as a reward instead of chosen at lvl 1)
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:29PM
#29
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Clockwork - I agree that 3e allowed for deciding a multiclass later - bu I believe when 4e hybriding came out, they explicitly mentioned that you might ask your dm to respec. And, that worked for us. So, with dms permission, I see hybrid as something you can transition into later. Now, admitedly, the wizard/fighter hybrid at level 10 who used to be a level 9 wizard may need some explaining, but in our games, we managed to tie respecs to the inevitable character downtime.
I get that mileage may vary, and frankly, if the multiclassing is balanced, interesting, and avoids encouraging /1/1/1 characters, I don't really mind if we have "3e style multiclassing" - ill just recommend that Everyone only pick two classes and stay within 1 level.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:34PM
#30
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Clockwork - I agree that 3e allowed for deciding a multiclass later - bu I believe when 4e hybriding came out, they explicitly mentioned that you might ask your dm to respec. And, that worked for us. So, with dms permission, I see hybrid as something you can transition into later. Now, admitedly, the wizard/fighter hybrid at level 10 who used to be a level 9 wizard may need some explaining, but in our games, we managed to tie respecs to the inevitable character downtime. I get that mileage may vary, and frankly, if the multiclassing is balanced, interesting, and avoids encouraging /1/1/1 characters, I don't really mind if we have "3e style multiclassing" - ill just recommend that Everyone only pick two classes and stay within 1 level.
This. (except I'm fine with 3 classes + a kit/theme or two if it makes sense nor do they have to stay wothin one level)
Without going into the detail's I was playing a Paladin who with the help of her god absorbed the rampant dark energy pouring out of a dying necromancer to keep it from corrupting the the other party member and became a Paladin/Warlock hybrid...she even developed a split personality it was really funny to play with...just think smeagol but with a male and female presence...my female friend was going to play the female half for me but the DM went to university and has ZERO time...poor guy :P
Again though if both types were availible it would make it incredibly versatile.
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