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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 5:37AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Hey everyone I'm working on a homebrewed class and I have a few questions for Char Op. I'm using the model of Barbarian (Berserker) to make my new defender class. What I mean by that is it will have the following traits:
- Complete Access to it's parent class for powers and feats. And the parent class will get all of the powers of the new class to chose from.
- A new set of features to replace the class features of the parent class
- An aura that punishes mark violation with an OA
- 2 "modes" that you switch between. Like the Defender Aura and the Berserker Fury.
- I'm aiming for roughly the same amount of information as was released with the Barbarian (Berserker). That means 4 new At-Wills, 2 Encounter, Daily and Utility powers of each level. 1 Paragon Path and 1 Epic Destiny. 2 class Feats and 1 multiclass feat.
Now, the parent class is Rogue. So think of the idea is to be a lot like The Most Annoying Rogue Ever, only to also be able to have a psuedo-mark. What I'm asking from Char-Op.
- Some help judging the power of the powers and feats. I especially don't want to give something to the parent class that is broken.
- Discussion on what a defender, in general needs. Attack Penalties, Defensive boosts, ways to punish and some limited target control are the base I'm working with.
- Pointers on what this type of defender needs. Since Berserkers are not well loved here, I am hoping to get discussion on what that class did wrong and see if there is a way to fix it.
Thanks in advance. Special mention goes to RuinsFate and Kilpatds for already giving me a good amount of constructive criticism on the project. The project can be found here: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 5:51AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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CharOp really doesn't like the Berserker (well, most of us, I like mine, but the power selection definitely suffers after 17th if you want to keep defending). A lot of the issues would be fixed if the transition between defending and striking wasn't one-way unless you take Battle Awareness, and even then...
You can make one a viable defender (REALLY must post the build) through heroic, decent to OK up to about 17th, but less useful beyond that point.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:11AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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So... What of this feedback can I use for making the build? That the character needs to have relevant defending options past heroic? I'll note that.
I'm going to be focusing primarily on heroic at first (because you have to start somewhere) and then I'll mess around with it, make a couple builds and see what people think the weaknesses are and try to design paragon around that.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:18AM
#4
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Are you going to have trouble with Riposte Strike + Vigilante Justice Style?
Riposte Strike with Sneak Attack, Flourish
Attack adjacent ally: Fencing Mastery, Feint, Riposte with Sneak Attack
Attack you: Riposte Strike, Feint
It basically guarantees an off-turn attack, makes what's probably the most damaging defender mechanic in the game, and allows you to start every turn with Sneak Attack available. It's also a probably-too-solid Catch-22 available at level 1.
I happen to like Defender Auras a lot more than the consensus on this board, and I'd play this in a heartbeat.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:19AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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What is the drawback of playing this Shield Dancer, over a Rogue? You still get sneak attack, you still get rogue powers, you still basically get artful dodger, you get better MBA, more flexible version of weapon talent, better hit points, more surges, better defenses, more power choices through being able to use Cha in place of Str.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:21AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
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The mode system totally fails. You want to be striker first, then defender, not the opposite. Its also far more effective to focus on one than try to bridge the gap. Also modeling a class off an e-class is a bad idea.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:29AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
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Are you going to have trouble with Riposte Strike + Vigilante Justice Style?
Riposte Strike with Sneak Attack, Flourish
Attack adjacent ally: Fencing Mastery, Feint, Riposte with Sneak Attack
Attack you: Riposte Strike, Feint
It basically guarantees an off-turn attack, makes what's probably the most damaging defender mechanic in the game, and allows you to start every turn with Sneak Attack available. It's also a probably-too-solid Catch-22 available at level 1.
I happen to like Defender Auras a lot more than the consensus on this board, and I'd play this in a heartbeat.
I agree you either need to find a way around the Riposte Strike problem, or base it off a different class. If you want to stick with a dex-based defender, how about a Monk? They've already got a lot of good defendery stuff. Add a defender aura and a dex-based MBA, and you're practically done.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:39AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
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I'd take out Charismatic Defender and leave this class as an A class like the regular rogue. It just seems like too much with the other class features.
I think auras in general have problems past heroic. Things with reach, forced movement, larger sized enemies, slow/immobilize/etc just really make it problematic. In heroic though, I love them. Just expanding the aura might be too strong, but maybe you could add one square onto your 9x9 area or something in paragon, then just aura 2 at epic, giving your OA a shift. So you kind of have threatening reach, but punishing might mean moving your aura off another guy. I dunno, I'd want to playtest it some, but it definitely needs a fix for paragon+.
Edit - another idea would be aura 2 at paragon, aura 3 at epic and some kind of free action shift power that you can use to enforce it vs non-adjacents. The power could start off with a fairly limited shift (like 1/round) and get better at higher levels through feature upgrades or feats. It would also fit the flavor of the class quite well.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:58AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
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I'd take out Charismatic Defender and leave this class as an A class like the regular rogue. It just seems like too much with the other class features.
Seconded. Why else even bother playing a regular Rogue? (unless you wanna go stealth)
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5 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 10:27AM
#10
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Or, while the aura is active, any enemy willingly leaving your aura takes Dex mod damage and a -2 attack until the end of their turn but you do not get Sneak Attack damage while the aura is active and you can switch it on/off as a minor action. That way if you're in a single spot you want to be you can de-activate your aura, make your attack, and then re-activate your aura only losing out on minor action attacks.
Or maybere-do a power like Riposte Strike if that enemy attacks someone else other than you, you can shift up to your Dex Mod (or speed, or whatever) and make that attack.
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