One thing to note: Shield Dance really, really needs to be called, or have some text to say it counts as, a Defender Aura, otherwise it stacks with Knights and Berserkers' auras (Knights and Berserkers can punish enemies that attack you, because they're not attacking an ally with an active Defender Aura...). And, strictly, the punishment feature doesn;t work with it when it's called shield dance.
I do like the concept though, I've been considering a dex defender for a while - I made the grounds of one in one of the design contests a while ago, the Shadowlash. Might come back to it at some point.
Post a link to your old idea if you have one. I'd like to blatantly steal good ideas use it as a resource.
I put a note in the design notes to fix Defender Aura. For the moment there isn't a great way to do it unless you simple have with this "The Defender Aura power gains 'X wording' as part of the hypothetical article/book that would release this."
I kinda wish that Defender aura could be a subtype so they could share that element. Like how a pally mark and a fighter mark are both just marks.
One thing that might happen is using "Are considered marked" wordings for the defender aura... That might work better... I'll think about it and see what I can do to fix that.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here Spoiler:Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I put a note in the design notes to fix Defender Aura. For the moment there isn't a great way to do it unless you simple have with this "The Defender Aura power gains 'X wording' as part of the hypothetical article/book that would release this."
I kinda wish that Defender aura could be a subtype so they could share that element. Like how a pally mark and a fighter mark are both just marks.
One thing that might happen is using "Are considered marked" wordings for the defender aura... That might work better... I'll think about it and see what I can do to fix that.
I'm not seeing the problem with using the standard defender aura. If you're Feinting, you can't activate it (says so in the description of Feinting). If you're Flourishing, you automatically activate it after making the attack. Maybe mention in the description of Flourishing that you can activate your defender aura as a free action?
Oh, and remember this one? It's actually kinda interesting for a Rogue defender.
I'll read through when I get a chance.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here Spoiler:Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I put a note in the design notes to fix Defender Aura. For the moment there isn't a great way to do it unless you simple have with this "The Defender Aura power gains 'X wording' as part of the hypothetical article/book that would release this."
I kinda wish that Defender aura could be a subtype so they could share that element. Like how a pally mark and a fighter mark are both just marks.
One thing that might happen is using "Are considered marked" wordings for the defender aura... That might work better... I'll think about it and see what I can do to fix that.
I'm not seeing the problem with using the standard defender aura. If you're Feinting, you can't activate it (says so in the description of Feinting). If you're Flourishing, you automatically activate it after making the attack. Maybe mention in the description of Flourishing that you can activate your defender aura as a free action?
The original concept used normal defender aura. But the way Feinting and Flourishing works is a huge pain with defender aura as you aren't required to be in one of the two states. So there was a time where you could turn your aura on and off and get SA and the Aura without needing to worry about the other options. Ruins Fate helped a lot with understanding why it is an issue.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here Spoiler:Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Writing this down so I can work on it later when I have time.
Wondering if I can do something about the aura to make it say "people in aura are considered marked unless they are already effected by Defender Aura or marked by an ally." Rather than compete with Defender Aura for the same condition it could make its own that was slightly different. It does make an interesting priority situation though. If someone with that type of aura was next to an enemy and someone with a defender aura walked up, this aura would have priority. If someone has a defender aura and this guy walked up, the defender aura would have priority.
It also opens up the ability to have their mark punishment actually punish via a mark, so the class can have abilities that mark at range and those abilities wouldnt be clunky or annoying.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here Spoiler:Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Well, you sort of asked for this, and I was bored, so...
I Am A Weapon...No, A Shield!
A Mini-Guide to Shield Dancer Rogues
Rather than bore you with words, I'll cut to the chase: this will be a short and quick powers guide/review of the Shield Dancer power selection and how it fares against the rogue mainstays.
Winds of Change - Remember how Duelist's Prowess absolutely sucked? This is a close burst 3 version that targets 2 people instead. That's...kinda better? Minor control, defender-level damage (~30 at epic level is not all that terrible) to one and dex mod to another, and you don't care about the melee keyword for IoAP, etc since you won't get static mods anyway. I'll consider that par of the course.
RZ Notes: I would have preferred a clarifying text stating that you can still only apply SA once/turn - although you can buff this to a Dark Blue power by allowing both targets to be hit with SA for a power-specific rulebreaker. This is important, as this is the one of few ways to apply SA even on flourish, and SA is incredibly modifiable for stacking additional attack penalties in exchange for ditching damage dice), making for an extremely effective way to stack penalties onto a mark.
Benchmarks to beat: Riposte Strike- Seriously, DPS harder. I dare you. Attach Either of Nerathi Vanguard (non-str build), or Midnight Blade Student (Str-build). Then also get Mark of Warding. Disheartening Strike - Penalty stack moar. Style feat adds a slide 1, Spiked Chain + Flail Exp gets you at-will proning. Sly Flourish - Standard DPS power for this build, but style feat also adds Rattling.
RZ Notes: This is a hard level to build for, because Dazing Strike exists and is basically kind of an auto-pick for a defender. Could actually use a generic proning power though, those are hard to come by for a rogue.
Benchmarks to beat: Dazing Strike - Because Dazing happens to also be awesome for defending.
Nip the Ankles - Yeah, I dunno. If you wanted control, you would have taken Blinding Barrage. If you wanted enough damage to try and bury the thing you're fighting instead, you take Press the Advantage. Single target, single-round control on a half-striker isn't so great, because for a nominally higher investment, you could just be inflicting dead.
Benchmarks to beat: Press the Advantage Blinding Barrage
RZ Notes: Honestly, this is the level where I would peg a resist forced movement-type power ("Surefooted: Interrupt - reduce forced movement by 2 until start of next turn", etc)
Fast Dance - I did a triple-take here. I love 'move and hit everything you touch powers', but this one doesn't carries no static mods. But its a Move Action - awesome. This is actually kind of like a utility power to me. Retranslate as: you shift your speed, then slide around a bunch of things to rearrange enemies around into a perfect burst formation. I like this a lot. Unfortunately, the E3 competition is fierce.
RZ Notes: Fast Dance is great! Except the competition is fierce, considering Low Slash (Slow and Slide 1 as a minor) is still amazing for a defender. Actually, the other prime pick is Startling Offensive. Vs an approaching enemy, you shift in, ping him, then immediately flourish and set up your aura in his face. I would maybe pick up Fast Dance at E7 on an O-Rogue.
Benchmarks to beat: Low Slash - Still god. Slow and Positioning setup as a minor will still trump positioning setup as a move action when there's a damage roll involved. Startling Offensive - works even better for this build than the O-Rogue, as a turn 0 approach-response.
Unbalancing Lunge - High Damage, potentially huge penalty to attack save ends that stacks with the likes of blind, etc. Blinding Flourish - On a striker chassis, powers that strike your main target and defenderlock/control secondary targets is the real way to go! Obviously, this power isn't good if you're an O-Rogue.
RZ Notes: Again, at this point in the metagame, you weigh the value of single-target control against picking a daily that would just help you wipe a standard completely on a nova sequence.
Benchmarks to beat: Go for the Eyes, Bloodbath, Compel the Craven, Driving Assault, Surefooted Retort, etc
Go with the Flow - Isn't this a Monk power? Regardless, forced movement a big enough concern for you that you should be actively looking for permanent solutions to counter this rather than a utility power patchfix.
RZ Notes: Yeah, I dunno, I'd rather go with the attack-negation of Swift Parry.
Benchmarks to beat: Swift Parry Timely Dodge, but that isn't good for a defender build
Whirlwind of Sand - Junk for an O-Rogue, borderline gold for you because its your Come and Get It clone. As an analogue comparison, it targets a two NADs that are both higher than Will, and requires an off-hand weapon (strictly speaking, not really, just keep your best weapon in you offhand, and use your offhand weapon with the initial attack too) so its a bit weaker, but the important distinction is that you do not have to pull 2 adjacent to you, unlike the 'pull adjacent or not at all' clause on post-nerfbat CaGI, which makes it reasonably valuable.
RZ Notes: The hit line on Whirlwind is kind of wonky right now - it implies a close burst 1 attack after every hit. So you would pull A in, then close burst it. You would then pull B in, then close burst A and B. When you pull C in, you'd close burst A, B, and C, etc. Also, Rogue|Defender hybrids everywhere rejoice at their shiny new CaGI clone. I would grab this on a Rogue|Warden or Rogue|Paladin hybrid, for example.
Benchmarks to beat: The stuff you missed out at E3.
Field of Blades- Defender Aura expansion and gives you a shift to make use of it. Its power analogue is the Berserker power that does the same thing, which likewise got a high rating because it greatly expands your defender ability as well as response to adverse conditions like forced movement.
RZ Notes: Then again, Knockout Blow is also a great defender power too.
Benchmarks to beat: Knockout Blow- still impossible to dethrone.
RZ Notes: Theoretically, Acrobat's Escape and Counter Step are highly rated, but they only respond to melee 1 range triggers, so I would consider this a low point in rogue utility power selection. A lot of good stuff can fill in here.
Benchmarks to beat: Acrobat's Escape, Counter Step
The class feature lets Riposte be Cha Based, so no worries on needing to turn it around.
For E1 how would you rate Guarded Attack or Opening Move? I think they are both black, but I'm interested in your take.
I'm going to be changing some things to make you semi-forced to use a shield (if you want to get your mark violation at least)
I'm hoping not to make purple powers. What would you suggest for Nip the Ankles in order to make it black or blue?
What do you see as a permanent solution to the forced movement power? Go with the Flow might be ripped straight from monk (although I made it independently). But that is the type of effect I was going for. Should it last to the start of the next turn?
I won't be able to really work on this more until after Winter Fantasy is done, but when I get back and make some serious changes I would appreciate a second look (although, I'm not asking for anything nearly as detailed as your little miniguide cause that was awesome).
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here Spoiler:Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
1. I missed that and then remembered it after. But it was late night/early morning when I wrote that up (note all the typos), so we'll blame it on the lack of sleep. Rephrase:
Nerathi Vanguard if you have no secondary stat at attack-caliber (18-x builds), Midnight Blade/Vigilante Justice for everyone else. I'm actually not too keen on Vigilante Justice because it does not necessarily add an extra attack here. The decision tree post Riposte+VJS is actually so lose/lose-lose for a monster that the correct behavior is to actually move (not shift) out of your aura, taking a regular OA without the extradamage dice, and then take its free pick of targets to attack with impunity.
2. Encounter Powers should be rated based on their 'battlefield impact'. Opening Move doesn't have that much battlefield impact for an O-Rogue in the greater scheme of things (compared to, say, Dazing Strike), but it is valuable to the Shield Dancer because it keeps you alive, and you are the battlefield impact. I originally rated this a Dark Blue, but we might just be borderline Sky Blue here. Guarded Attack is just Riposte Strike with a tiny bit more damage, and can't be augmented with style feats, which is where the real money is. Was Red, still is.
3. Boooooo.
4. We'll frame this in the same logic as powers in the paladin handbook. At Daily 1, if you can take a power to inflict Dead, you take it over anything else single-target. That's why the 4[W] Straladin power is so highly rated. If its not single target, then it needs to apply appreciable control over multiple targets. I liken this to the Berserker power selection as well - you have a 4[W] single target and a close burst 1 prone, both of which are at least par value.
To be competitive with Blinding Barrage, I'd expect at minimum a multi-targetting Immobilize (similar analogue exists on the paladin and swordmage lists - close burst 1 immobilize ENT. Hell, warlocks get it as area burst save-ends). Requiring CA is also harsh. If it needs CA to initiate the attack, it should outperform a stock power of its similar class and function that doesn't. Having a target line of "One, Two, or Three targets granting you CA" might be more interesting, dealing 3[W], 2[W], or 1[W] damage depending on how many you target.
To match a 4[W] power, there's already Press the Advantage and a 3[W] charge power, so that niche is mostly filled. But...you might be able to produce a similar caliber power and have multi-target impact to boot. Example: "Spiked Shield Shock": Primary attack vs AC: 3[W]+Dex. Effect, Push 2 you may shift after your target; make a second attack vs all targets adjacent to the target you just threw. Sec Attack vs Fort: 1d6 and Prone.
5. My defender-fu is weak, but I think even fighters end up having a problem vs forced movement, so its not exactly like there's actually a well-documented solution out there. Until start of next round is probably a more appropriate power level for a U6 - Rangers and Artificers actually get force-movement negation interrupts as U2s. A Daily stance that lets you do that U6 effect all encounter long might even be useful.
Edit:
For as much as we rip on Bajat over in charop, he's at least partially got the right idea. Cross-class power analogue awareness is important, at least as far as rating at what level a theoretical class is suppose to perform at, and in developing new content.
