If you go that route.... White Lotus Enervation over Arcane Spellfury, as your allies can benefit from it as well. Our Elementalist (in a free Expertise/ImpDef game) had WLE in Heroic and early Paragon, but found things just didn't live long enough for the benefit to come into effect that often.
Except Bolt targets Ref and DSB targets Fort, so while some allies may benefit, his Main Attack won't.
If you go that route.... White Lotus Enervation over Arcane Spellfury, as your allies can benefit from it as well. Our Elementalist (in a free Expertise/ImpDef game) had WLE in Heroic and early Paragon, but found things just didn't live long enough for the benefit to come into effect that often.
Except Bolt targets Ref and DSB targets Fort, so while some allies may benefit, his Main Attack won't.
Exactly. The idea would be to lead the attack with Elemental Bolt instead of Demon-Skin, which would then throw in the +1 to hit, and possibly bloody them as well (another +1 to hit). If I'm going: Action point, elemental bolt (escalated), elemental bolt (minor/WoS), demon-skin, the goal is to have it dead at the end.
As far as DIS and Icy Clutch goes- there's only so much faster I can get them; IF was going for Fiery Blood. Superior Will could be delayed, but he then pretty much fits the definition of Glass Cannon. If I can get a Steadfast Amulet and grab Maiden's Waking at 10, that at least provides some protection from stuns, etc.
After a long gap thinking about it (and trying unsuccessfully to lobby the group to allow the use of themes), here's what I'm looking at, at level 7 and hitting level 8 after the next session:
*PP Demonskin Adept *Desired main hand implement: Melegaunt's Darkblade if I can get it, Jagged Dagger if not, for extra Blinding at level 16 and more potential of Ruthless Spellfury in early Epic
Feats:
Level 8- Superior Will Level 10- something to retrain at 11 Level 11- Arcane Admixture (Demon Soul Bolts/Fire), Retrain Level 10 feat to Secrets of Belial (for Eagle's Cunning) Level 12- Lasting Frost, Retrain Implement Focus to Arcane Admixture (Elemental Bolt, Cold) Level 14- Fiery Blood Level 16- DIS Level 18- Icy Clutch of Stygia Level 20- ? Level 21- Quickened Spellcasting
Questions: 1) Is Superior Will a necessity for high heroic/low paragon, or should I grab something else there and pick it up later? Arcane Spellfury? DIS (though the Weapon of Speed is currently still a +1)? I would have Maiden's Waking starting at 10, if that makes any difference.
2) Am I best off going with Lasting Frost? I think the answer's yes, even though DSB generally won't trigger it, unless I've used a Frost Whetstone. EB would, Elemental Escalation's ongoing at 17 would, Jagged Dagger (if that's what I have) would, and Icy Clutch would. I guess the alternative would be Echoes of Thunder, and it would apply to new targets and DSB, but it feels worse in this case since it's only on rolls.
3) If the answer to 2 is yes, Gloves of Ice or Gauntlets of Blood?
4) Is it worth the 2 feats it would take in at level in Epic to pick up a multiclass to swordmage and Acolyte Power for Borrowed Confidence? It feels like Eagle's Splendor is the best option for Secrets of Belial all the way through- am I actually wrong about that? Would retraining SoB-Eagle's Splendor for SoB-Borrowed Confidence and taking Arcane Spellfury be better, at one fewer feat? Note that this isn't an issue for those who can take Infernal Prince; it's solely a problem because I can't get that.
5) Alternatively, is there a better option than the expanded Crit range from the primary dagger? It seems like that's still the best option, but I could be wrong.
Here is a similar character that I built. I am sure there are ways it could be better, but it might give you a few ideas. I MC'd Wizard for fire support. Especially Burn Everything, which doesn't help a whole lot before epic, but the big thing is it turns immune into resist, and then the level 24 feature of Prince of Hell ignores resist, so basically nothing will be immune to your fire attacks.
Obviously admixing another element would take care of that, but I wanted to keep his attacks all fire. Nova turn is 4 attacks with base +48 damage, which isn't bad. Plus I took Icy Clutch of Stygia and Hellfire Master to make saving vs. ongoing fire attacks deal 33 damage. Again, I'm sure there is room for improvement, but I like it.
With Dual Implement Expertise, a Cinder Wand of Fire, a Dagger of Speed, along some the Bracers of the Perfect Shot, Hellfire Blood, Fiery Blood and Academy Master you can have a nova round of 5 attacks (if you include the Master Riposte), with a base +58 damage, except one minor action Elemental Bolt through the dagger with base +54 damage. MultiClass into Warlock because Warlock Implement Expertise is easy to get with CHA and CON, so you do not need to invest in other abilities. White Lotus Dueling Expertise is also helpful.
ITEMS Adventurer's Kit Eagle Eye Goggles (heroic tier) Flame Bracers (paragon tier) Dagger of Speed +6 x1 Bracers of the Perfect Shot (epic tier) x1 Fire Horn Eagle Eye Goggles (epic tier) x1 Cinder wand of Fire +6 x1 Cloak of Translocation +6 x1 Boots of Teleportation x1 Ring of Free Time x1 Sash of Regeneration x1 Ring of Fury x1 Gauntlets of Blood (epic tier) x1 Greater Dragoncloth Armor of Eyes +6 x1 ====== End ======
Your idea is interesting, but it does a few things I'm not sure I'm so comfortable with:
1) It's delaying a lot of the damaging stuff until later. It really feels like an Epic only build (though I suppose you might have other stuff earlier- I can't tell what you're retraining out of to grab the Cinder Wand).
2) You're relying on the enemy being dumb enough to hit you. WLMR is nice, but they have to smack you. Note that it's an Immediate Reaction, so you can't intentionally draw them into an Opportunity Attack- no Immediate Actions on your turn. I'm also not entirely sure where you're getting a base of 58 from, unless you're assuming that you always get +6 from Gauntlets of Blood. Personally, I'd rate them at +3, since you need the enemy to be bloodied.
3) Your equipment is pretty expensive. I'm getting a total value for you of over 19.75 million, which is more than what you'd get after adventuring from level 1-30. I don't think you need to go down to the 11 million or so that is 2x level 30 items and 1x level 29, and gold=29, but perhaps dropping down to around 18 million might be more appropriate.
As an alternative, see this build, which I just threw together from some ideas I've had. It uses about 14 million gold, for reference (could easily go higher by upgrading the Elven Chain or the Diamong Cincture and by taking Greater Armor of Eyes instead of Robe of Eyes).
FEATS Fiery Blood Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Incendiary dagger) Level 2: War Wizard's Expertise Level 4: Hellfire Blood Level 8: Superior Will Level 11: Lasting Frost Level 11: Arcane Admixture Level 12: Arcane Admixture II Level 14: Dual Implement Spellcaster Level 16: Sorcerous Blade Channeling Level 18: Secrets of Belial Level 20: Icy Clutch of Stygia Level 21: Quickened Spellcasting Level 22: Ruthless Spellfury Level 24: Disciple of Divine Wrath Level 26: Epic Resurgence Level 28: Superior Fortitude Level 30: Hellfire Teleport
ITEMS Incendiary dagger of Speed +6 x1 Melegaunt's Darkblade Incendiary dagger +6 x1 Torc of Power Preservation +6 x1 Robe of Eyes Mindpatterned Armor +6 x1 Ring of Free Time x1 Gloves of Ice (epic tier) x1 Eagle Eye Goggles (epic tier) x1 Bracers of the Perfect Shot (epic tier) x1 Diamond Cincture (paragon tier) x1 Ring of Giants x1 Eladrin Boots x1 Elven Chain Shirt (paragon tier) Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (epic tier) Backlash Tattoo Solitaire (Aquamarine) Diplomat's Scabbard Ruby Scabbard Handy Haversack Five Stars Five Strikes Salve of Power ====== End ======
Notes: 1) Background of Akanul, since he wouldn't benefit from AB/BUABS. Instead he gets Akanul. With it, by level 30 Qirun's fire resistance has reached 25 and thunder resistance 15, along with resist 5 cold.
2) Defenses are reasonably high. AC is 43, which isn't too terrible for a ranged character. I took Superior Fortitude late, though you could easily replace that with some other feat; I just disliked having his Fort. that low. Improved Defenses is not worth it: his Reflex is actually so low that enemies should auto-hit (less critical misses); ID would require them to get a 3 (so only a 10% increase in defenses, not even 15%). Not worth it.
3) He does have a couple of ways to boost his defenses when necessary- Sudden Scales works nicely, and when necessary, Diplomat's Scabbard.
4) Since we seem to be discussing Epic numbers: including the Shards, Qirun is at +40 vs. Reflex on an Elemental Bolt with either weapon, +62 static damage, and the potential is there for Lasting Frost.
5) If he doesn't have to move (this will obviously vary given the situation), Qirun's AP nova looks like this starting in mid-Paragon: Action Point (conferring benefits/detriments of Demonskin Adept) Minor action: Borrowed Confidence Standard Action: Demon Soul Bolts. Each is rolled twice on. Note that a crit with Melegaunt's Darkblade adds Cold damage, so Lasting Frost would be invoked right then. Minor Action: Elemental Bolt (if in epic, use the Quickened Spellcasting one). Standard Action: Elemental Bolt, Elemental Escalation.
You've now had 5 attacks against one creature, with base bonuses of 52, 52, 52, 62, 62 (these are at 30, but I can provide the numbers at 16, 21, etc). You've rolled twice in each case, and with the action point, need no more than about a 3 to hit (the number is slightly higher at levels 19-20). You've also gotten a +5 from Lasting Frost at least once (if not more). If you rolled a critical hit on DSB or on the minor action Elemental Bolt, then you've also gotten to regain DSB via Epic Resurgence, starting at 24. If you rolled one on Elemental Bolt, you've gotten a free action elemental bolt, in addition, starting at 22.
Depending on what you're expecting from your enemy, and on whether you've gotten a crit, etc, you might actually want to target the minor action bolt elsewhere to avoid overkill.
If you find that you are already in melee before you get a chance to go, and it applies: use Oath of Enmity instead of Borrowed Confidence.
If you find that you need to move, either now or later in the encounter, use Five Stars Five Strikes. You can always combine that with Oath of Enmity or Borrowed Confidence later in the encounter; you might not do completely destructive damage, but you will have at least 10 rolls with which to attempt to blind them (your level 16 feature).
Note that some parts of this build are variable; you could potentially start with the 11 in Strength, and sacrifice two of the CON upgrades, in order to grab Sorcerous Implement Expertise. I just don't think that bargain is worth it.
There are multiple ways to regain DSB. Torc of Power Preservation, Salve of Power, and Epic Resurgence all allow doing so. Note also that the Solitaire and Ruthless Spellfury both allow getting a free action EB on a Crit, though obviously you can only use one per turn.
The big, no movement, silly nova at 30: AP Borrowed Confidence Demon Soul Bolts Either Epic Resurgence (if you critted) or Torc of Power Preservation (if you didn't) Demon Soul Bolts Weapon of Speed minor Quickened Spellcasting minor w/Escalation Free crit-based attack (you're rolling 18 attack rolls, so you should darn well have one whether it's from the Solitaire or not).
Total noncrit base damage: 52+52+52+52+52+52+62+67= 441. Assuming you managed the free action attack, 508. Plus an additional: 4d12+3d10 (assuming Escalation) +1d6+6d8=26+16.5+3.5+27 average=73 on average, 581. Assuming one crit in there (which we already have), another 6d6+12=33
For a total of 614, the target is blinded, you have -3 to defenses and your allies have +3 to attack.
Depending on how that all went down, you've probably killed it (unless it's a solo or an Elite Brute). If it's not dead yet, you should have DSB back yet again for the following turn. If necessary, on the next round, use it with Oath of Enmity and FSFS for another 14 attack rolls, which should blind the target again.
Finally- if your DM is the kind to let you prep for a fight, remember that Frozen Whetstones are your friend.
CHA (+10) Elementalist Bonus 8+CON (+16) Cinder Wand of Fire (+6 & energized +4 = +10) Dagger of Speed (+6) Bracers of the Perfect Shot (+6) Fundamental Mastery (+5) Fiery Blood (+4) Hellfire Blood (+1) = +58
The +58 damage is without the Gauntlets of Blood. With them you're at +64. And don't forget the Chaos Wager if an ally has his turn before you do or if you have a Battlefield Archer with Combined Fire in your party. If not it's still nice beefing up possibly WLMR, Infernal Wrath and your second turn with it. Sudden Scales is not really helpful with that low AC.
One minor action Elemental Bolt is carried out through the Dagger of Speed (Encounter Power). That's why one attack is missing the Energized bonus (+4), therefore +54. Yes, I am counting on being attacked and hit, especially because of the low armor and further because to pull off Elemental Escalation at two targets you'll have to come quite near your targets (5 squares for the second). Even better, so I can use Infernal Wrath (3d6+15) in combination with WLMR, if I get hit. But even if the enemy misses me, I can still pull off WLMR, so it isn't that difficult to achieve. And don't forget the vanilla White Lotus Riposte (10 Damage) itself.
Arcane Underpinning and the higher CHA (30) helps with the accuracy, especially after the first shot. I am not fond of MC Oath of Emnity, because while it's really helpful on solos it is quite less useful in encounters with multiple foes, where you'll have to switch your target more often than you like (Early finishing off normals or monsters already wounded by other party members). And those encounters might be the majority. On the other hand going for a full health normal/elite while leaving an already wounded aside might help in exploiting the oath a lttle better, but tactically it's not judicious. So an 1/Encounter Oath is not flexible enough IMHO. AND you need a minor action to place it, so a Ring of free Time is neccessary.
About the equipment, I thought this is the optimization forum and not the economy forum. It's all theoretical. If you take such things into account, you should also take into account, that a tiefling is of an infernal (devil) bloodline, not a demon. So Demonskin Adept is kind of "unfluffy". A Devilskin adept isn't available, unfortunately. Btw. the Demonskin AP feat will most likely make monsters attack you. Another good chance of WLMR, don't you agree.
About your question, what is before the Dual Implement Expertise, well, until epic the char ran with an accurate staff of ruin and without the Bracers of the Perfect Shot. Still pretty capable during heroic and paragon tier. Retraining ftw. While I am convinced that your built might be able to deal some more damage during the first round, I am still confindent that mine still reaches the ominous "benchmark" and with Eternal Returns and Spirit of the Dragon I have 2 measures per day to cheat death, which suits my risky style.
Edit: Btw. If Learned Boost and Master's Surge are considered valid and working, you have access to a maximized (Cinder Wand of Fire) 6d12+3d10+1d6+58(+15 with Chaos Wager) 'escalated' Elemental Bolt. That's 166/181 damage. If you manage to crit, the Cinder Wand of Fire provides a high crit bonus. That would be 6d8+3d10+166/181. Even one of the minor action Elemental Bolts still crits for 6d8+3d10+76/91 damage.So it might catch up with your build occassionally.
And don't forget the Chaos Wager if an ally has his turn before you do or if you have a Battlefield Archer with Combined Fire in your party. If not it's still nice beefing up possibly WLMR, Infernal Wrath and your second turn with it. Sudden Scales is not really helpful with that low AC.
Sudden Scales is with all defenses, but I take your point about Chaos Wager. And WLMR is very nice- it's delaying some of the other stuff until Epic that I'm not sure I like, and to pick up WLR, WLMR, and Imperious Majesty, we're talking about 3 feats that need to be delayed/eliminated.
Arcane Underpinning and the higher CHA (30) helps with the accuracy, especially after the first shot. I am not fond of MC Oath of Emnity, because while it's really helpful on solos it is quite less useful in encounters with multiple foes, where you'll have to switch your target more often than you like (Early finishing off normals or monsters already wounded by other party members). And those encounters might be the majority. On the other hand going for a full health normal/elite while leaving an already wounded aside might help in exploiting the oath a lttle better, but tactically it's not judicious. So an 1/Encounter Oath is not flexible enough IMHO.
Probably true; it's just something I've been toying with. Secrets of Belial for Borrowed Confidence is probably enough in that regard.
About the equipment, I thought this is the optimization forum and not the economy forum. It's all theoretical. If you take such things into account, you should also take into account, that a tiefling is of an infernal (devil) bloodline, not a demon. So Demonskin Adept is kind of "unfluffy". A Devilskin adept isn't available, unfortunately. Btw. the Demonskin AP feat will most likely make monsters attack you. Another good chance of WLMR, don't you agree.
I don't consider equipment and gold value to be fluff. Theory-op is lovely; practical op requires fitting into the standard treasure that a character will get. That means that 2 level 30 items, 3 level 29s, and 2 level 28s just don't work.
About your question, what is before the Dual Implement Expertise, well, until epic the char ran with an accurate staff of ruin and without the Bracers of the Perfect Shot. Still pretty capable during heroic and paragon tier. Retraining ftw. While I am convinced that your built might be able to deal some more damage during the first round, I am still confindent that mine still reaches the ominous "benchmark" and with Eternal Returns and Spirit of the Dragon I have 2 measures per day to cheat death, which suits my risky style.
Edit: Btw. If Learned Boost and Master's Surge are considered valid and working, you have access to a maximized (Cinder Wand of Fire) 6d12+3d10+1d6+58(+15 with Chaos Wager) 'escalated' Elemental Bolt. That's 166/181 damage. If you manage to crit, the Cinder Wand of Fire provides a high crit bonus. That would be 6d8+3d10+166/181. Even one of the minor action Elemental Bolts still crits for 6d8+3d10+76/91 damage.So it might catch up with your build occassionally.
I think the most frustrating thing about the Elementalist is that it's almost there. It easily does 20/40/60 damage at will, and can just brush 30/60/90 (especially if you measure at 21 instead of 20, since it gets a lot of benefit there). But you have to pull out pretty much all the tricks to do it. It can easily (with Weapon of Speed) blow away a Standard with an Action Point nova, and can, on average, kill a Standard without one as well (in theory, the odds of a crit are high enough with Borrowed Confidence that a Demonskin Adept one could do so without using both of his minor action Bolts in a turn). It can, in theory, kill an Elite by the end of its career with a "daily" nova, but not really before, and even then, it's questionable. The bottom line is that it really needs one more good push to get it over the top, and it doesn't have that push.*
*Lyrandar Windrider actually might have enough of a push...erm, slide. But that's pushing even further afield into the "will a DM really let you have this?"
Quick edit that I forgot to mention: even without Lyrandar, admixturing Lightning instead of Cold may be worthwhile. You don't get the autodamage benefit on ongoing damage or WLR, but you can go with Gifts for the Queen and pick up a bonus that doesn't require having already hit, and get Ring of the Radiant Storm, which actually adds a fairly sizeable amount of damage in Epic because of how many dice you're rolling. I haven't run the numbers, though.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Sudden Scales is with all defenses, but I take your point about Chaos Wager. And WLMR is very nice- it's delaying some of the other stuff until Epic that I'm not sure I like, and to pick up WLR, WLMR, and Imperious Majesty, we're talking about 3 feats that need to be delayed/eliminated.
I am not sure I am following you on this one. What Do you mean by "delaying until epic" and "needs to be delayed/eliminated"?
About the equipment, I thought this is the optimization forum and not the economy forum. It's all theoretical. If you take such things into account, you should also take into account, that a tiefling is of an infernal (devil) bloodline, not a demon. So Demonskin Adept is kind of "unfluffy". A Devilskin adept isn't available, unfortunately. Btw. the Demonskin AP feat will most likely make monsters attack you. Another good chance of WLMR, don't you agree.
Well, you are not bound to end your career upon reaching lvl 30. You can still continue. And it also depends on the generosity of your DM.
I think the most frustrating thing about the Elementalist is that it's almost there. It easily does 20/40/60 damage at will, and can just brush 30/60/90 (especially if you measure at 21 instead of 20, since it gets a lot of benefit there). But you have to pull out pretty much all the tricks to do it. It can easily (with Weapon of Speed) blow away a Standard with an Action Point nova, and can, on average, kill a Standard without one as well (in theory, the odds of a crit are high enough with Borrowed Confidence that a Demonskin Adept one could do so without using both of his minor action Bolts in a turn). It can, in theory, kill an Elite by the end of its career with a "daily" nova, but not really before, and even then, it's questionable. The bottom line is that it really needs one more good push to get it over the top, and it doesn't have that push.*
I think that's with pretty much all E-classes. IMHO many O-strikers have a better chance of achieving 30/60/90, because their increase in damage capabilities can be considered exponential, thanks to dailies (Ranger's Five Missile Dance anyone?), while the E-strikers develop quite linear with having a stronger start (slayer bonus, elemtalist bonus, etc.). I personally think E-strikers were not intended to reach 30/60/90, but should always reach or exceed 20/40/60 with ease.
Given all the [over]love it usually gets, DIS is being rather neglected here. It should be the 8th level choice instead of Superior will. Granted, SW is quite useful defense, but will attacts are relatively less common, and will often be targeted at those with poorer defenses than you. And you are a striker, and want that extra damage. Maybe delay until 10th, but not much longer.
