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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 10:05AM
#21
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2012
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Seriously? Harder to pull off in 3E? You mean that game where every monster race was playable as a PC race? Really?
Monster races were generally considered to be massively inferior in 3E, especially if your concept involved anything non-standard (pixies) or spellcasters of any sort. Even though you could theoretically play any monster race, it was essentially a death sentence (ECL 7 with one hit die), or you couldn't even play it because the game was starting at a lower level than was required to cover the Level Adjustment.
The metagame is not the game.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 10:08AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2011
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Just wanted to say I echo the desire for books and pdfs. I like digital content but game with paper.
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs. He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own." --Gary Gygax
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:51PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2006
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You're funny.
Seriously? Harder to pull off in 3E? You mean that game where every monster race was playable as a PC race? Really? Goddamn, that's news to me, partner!
Yea, harder but NOT impossible. Namely because DMs were so self-absorbed in their belief that most people who wanted non-standard characters because they wanted to min/max or are powergamers that these ideas were squashed. Further, the system fought such ideas with the lame rule called "Level Adjustment" which pretty much borked your character right from the start. Additionally, the gambit of non-standard races ran from super-garbage to ultra-elite and no-brainers for specific class combinations. There was very little in the way of standards that race-rules followed and even less so when figuring out why a creature received their specific Level Adjustment. But lets take an example; my Dhampir Warlord/Warrior concept.
In 4E, I take any race I want and any martial/combat centric class I want. Most common would be the Fighter or Warlord (but Knight, Slayer, and Ranger works well). I then take the Vampiric Heritage feat and done. I have "trick" that simulates a vampiric-like bite attack plus some benefits to detecting other Dhampirs and undead plus a perception/insight bonus. I don't have any real downsides save that I'm considered a Vampire for
all intents and purposes. Or I could just play a Vampire class and Multiclass into a melee-centric warrior class.
In 3E, I could take the Vampire template (and sacrifice 8 levels due to their +8 LA). I could take the Vampire Bloodline and take a -2 or -3 level penalty to maintain the abilities. I could take the Half-Vampire template and take a -2 level penalty. The last version is probably the best of the 3 but instantly being gimped for the next few levels really sucks, espically if your starting out at 1st level AND most DMs see these options as people who want to be UBER-POWERFUL and break the game, which to me isn't the desire at all.
That was one of the things that actually pissed me off about 3E, honestly.
heh, you don't say?
Not because the options were there, but because for every one player that actually comes up with a genuinely good character concept involving a monster or non-core PC race, you find yourself having to say "hell no" to ten concepts that basically boil down to half-assed attempts to pin lame ass backstory to a blatant power grab. Oh, or you get the Anne Rice "vampires are hot" brigade! Oh, or you get a sad attempt at masking a self-insert! XD
You have to laugh, you really do. If I didn't, I'd probably choke someone. Ah, memories...
Thank you for clearly illustrating my point. Though vampire-esque characters is just one aspect of the problem I had with trying to play non-standard characters in pre-4E campaigns. A lot of the time the benefits WERE powerful and unbalancing and that was a problem too. Basically what I'm looking for is the ease of creating characters that are 1). balanced to a degree with other characters at the table, 2). allow the concept to be played at 1st level, and 3). Not get punished mechanically for choosing these options as a deterrent FOR those options.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 2:51PM
#24
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In a utopia we don't live in, I'd like to see the core rules as an OGL up front.
Technically (and I might be wrong in the details here) you can't copyright the rules of a game, at least not in the U.S.
In the eyes of the law D&D is no different than, say, poker. You can't copyright poker.
So in theory even without the OGL anyone could release a game with the exact same rules as DDN or any D&D.
You probably would just have to call Armor Class, Saving Throw and stuff like that something else.
What WotC made with 3ed (I think now they have OGL for 4ed too, not sure) was make all those nomenclatures for the rules, that they can and have copyrights, available for anyone who wanted to develop a game with the d20 system.
Anyway, the incentive on its own was one of the coolest initiatives I've seen a game company take, and I hope we'll see it again this time.
PS: Any law experts in the house who can backup or dismiss what I just said? I'm sure I read about this at the time OGL for 3ed was published but I'm no expert myself.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 1:18AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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Not a law expert but my understanding of copyright law says that if you were to reproduce a significant portion of the D&D rules would put you in breach of copyright. It's like how you can't copyright a single sentence but a book full of sentences in a particular order is copyrightable.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 8:10AM
#26
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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Giving away the rough equivalent of "Basic" (levels 1-3, with a tiny handful of races & classes) as a downloadable PDF would be a great marketing gimmick.
The "drug dealer" model works very well.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 5:18PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2007
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Giving away the rough equivalent of "Basic" (levels 1-3, with a tiny handful of races & classes) as a downloadable PDF would be a great marketing gimmick.
The "drug dealer" model works very well.
I'm going to say "I called it". Also, Basic rules are downloadable, so... yeah.
Salla, on minions: I typically use them as encounter filler. 'I didn't quite fill out the XP budget, not enough room left for a decent near-level monster ... sprinkle in a few minions'. Kind of like monster styrofoam packing peanuts.
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