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5 months ago  ::  Jan 19, 2013 - 9:05AM #11
Scatterbrained
Date Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 2,664
I think it's important to point out that when a fighter marks at range, all that mark is doing is giving the monster a -2 to attack creatures other than the fighter, which kind of just makes you a weak controller.  You have no punishment at range, and punishment is a keystone of defending. One of the things that makes fighters good is their "stickiness," but you have to be adjacent to make use of it.

Now, your wife may play it that every marked monster will go for you, but an intelligent monster would most likely take his chances with -2 to attack the squishy wizard instead of walking over to the armored fighter.  If you really want to focus on marking multiple things and backing up that mark with punishment, you might want to consider something else like a Paladin.

Note that I'm not saying a fighter doesn't have tricks to multi-mark, but when you're building a fighter to use ranged attacks in order to mark at range, you're squishing the fighter into a role that he does poorly.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 20, 2013 - 8:44PM #12
blake_marlowe
Date Joined: Jan 16, 2008
Posts: 201
crayne: i wasn't familiar with that item, thank you!

thespaceinvader quoth:
it's worth noting that fighters do have some neat tricks involving throwing weapons - specifically, cleave with deft hurler style.



much obliged, am unfamiliar with the style feats so i'll need to check that out!

baldhermit quoth:
blake, assuming that your DM is not a total ***** (you married her, after all), she will adjust the campaign to the parties needs and abilities. as such, i do not see the need for any ranged weapon at all.

D&D 4e heavily rewards specialisation, so i would recommend you fully equip yourself in feats, powers and items to be the melee controller you're supposed to be.



thank you for elaborating. your points are sensible & i appreciate the input. i shall abandon my original plan.

thespaceinvader quoth:
it's also worth noting that you can make RBAs with STR and one-handed weapons.  bows are almost  completely wasted on a fighter.



i was of that opinion but the thing about marking on a miss had me thinking.

matyr quoth:
another really nice option, to avoid range nonsense, is to get a fey strike weapon. on the rare cases you can't reach something for a turn you just MBA as a ranged 20 without provoking. if you really need that flying jerk down, just teleport him next to you.



excellent point, another player has a PC with a fey strike weapon in another game. i'd somehow forgotten:  thank you.

themaltesefalchion quoth:
a heavy thrown weapon will allow you to make ranged basic attacks using your strength.  any enchanted weapon +1 (or greater) returns to your hand, which should solve your ranged issues and give you the option to attack at range if it becomes necessary.



yep, i did notice the heavy thrown items, hence the javelin observation.  thanks!

scatterbrained quoth:
i think it's important to point out that when a fighter marks at range, all that mark is doing is giving the monster a -2 to attack creatures other than the fighter, which kind of just makes you a weak controller.  you have no punishment at range, and punishment is a keystone of defending. one of the things that makes fighters good is their "stickiness," but you have to be adjacent to make use of it.

now, your wife may play it that every marked monster will go for you, but an intelligent monster would most likely take his chances with -2 to attack the squishy wizard instead of walking over to the armored fighter. if you really want to focus on marking multiple things and backing up that mark with punishment, you might want to consider something else like a paladin.

note that i'm not saying a fighter doesn't have tricks to multi-mark, but when you're building a fighter to use ranged attacks in order to mark at range, you're squishing the fighter into a role that he does poorly.



fair points of course. i shall content myself with a +1 javelin assuming this doesn't impinge upon my gear choices.

thanks everyone for your prompt and informative responses!

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 20, 2013 - 9:30PM #13
Jugulator007
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2010
Posts: 1,349
I'd say skip the fighter completely, or hybrid with a striker.  With a wizard and invoker, you should have so much control that defending is pointless.  Do more damage to the controlled targets and end the combat quickly.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 20, 2013 - 10:59PM #14
Backmask
Date Joined: Apr 28, 2012
Posts: 83

Jan 20, 2013 -- 9:30PM, Jugulator007 wrote:

Do more damage to the controlled targets and end the combat quickly.



So ... play a fighter or invoker?

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 21, 2013 - 12:50AM #15
thespaceinvader
Date Joined: Oct 28, 2010
Posts: 9,777

Jan 20, 2013 -- 8:44PM, blake_marlowe wrote:

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thespaceinvader quoth:
it's also worth noting that you can make RBAs with STR and one-handed weapons.  bows are almost  completely wasted on a fighter.



i was of that opinion but the thing about marking on a miss had me thinking.



Far, FAR better to mark on a hit than on a miss

Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part.
The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight.

CB != rules source.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 21, 2013 - 1:53AM #16
Fardiz
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Posts: 2,291
'Quoth the themaltesefalcon "Never more".'
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks

You might be playing DnD wrong if...

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 25, 2013 - 5:37PM #17
blake_marlowe
Date Joined: Jan 16, 2008
Posts: 201

jugulator007 quoth:
i'd say skip the fighter completely, or hybrid with a striker. with a wizard and invoker, you should have so much control that defending is pointless. do more damage to the controlled targets and end the combat quickly.



the controllers are not keen on playing well with others. sadly, certain player choices are often tactically...suboptimal, shall we say.

thespaceinvader quoth:
far, far better to mark on a hit than on a miss



fair point. :>

again, my thanks all, you have been very helpful.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 25, 2013 - 6:26PM #18
ezrider23
Date Joined: Jan 27, 2009
Posts: 1,102
I know you don't have access to all the books and such but i will recommend you get a DDI sub. Beyond that if you really want to do ranged marking Paladin would be a better choice or if you can go for a Swordmage.
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