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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 8:56PM
#251
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
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The thing is..."that sex sells", only cover to the lower common denominator...and that's not D&D and tabletop RPG demography at all... hell, in videogames that strategy doesn't work anymore since the last decade and that's a lower common denominator than tabletop rpg...
Please show me where it doesn't work in video games? All the top video games basically have female super models running around in tight clothes kicking-$&@. I find it strange you think otherwise. If I'm wrong and that out of touch with video games then I'll gladly eat crow. But, can you point out the games you're talking about? Thanks.
All the top videogames? are you high? what do you think this is...the 1990s and early 2000s? Probably the most sexist top videogame i have played recently has been The Witcher 2... and probably Bioshock Infinite will kinda portrait the main heroine in a slightly sexist way, thought she help you as much as you help her it seems. Probably one of the most famous franchise in the last years (mass effect) have your character portrayed as unisex as possible, even as female, hence the reason alot of people love femshepard...she is written as a character, not as a female character or a tomboy character
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 9:00PM
#252
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 9:01PM
#253
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2008
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Time for a harsh reality that nobody wants to hear:
The major problem with people always citing their wives/girlfriends/female-friends/whatever is that they don't realize that these women are exactly as susceptible to the effects of the constant messages media convey about gender roles as men are. That a woman you know says she has no problem with the disproportionate over-sexualization of women in art and other media doesn't mean that it's okay, and it certainly doesn't mean that she knows what she's talking about. No disrespect to whoever's wife/girlfriend/whatever, but you can't just say "My wife/girlfriend/whatever says it's okay, and she's a women." and expect that to be the end of the conversation.
Bottom line is this: whatever anyone's interpretation of it is, if the profit is to be made via _________ then that is what the market will produce.
For a good example of some plate-kinis one has to go no further then World of Warcraft... And if the 900lb gorilla does it thats a substantial market share.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 9:01PM
#254
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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For those who think that, simple put, "sex sells", here are some articles you might want to take a look at when you have the time. [1] [2] [3] [4]For a good example of some plate-kinis one has to go no further then World of Warcraft...
Are you suggesting that World of Warcraft would be less successful without that horribly exaggerated sexual dimorphism? Because I'd bet the opposite. WoW's success has nothing to do with its sexualization of female characters. If anything, I'd be willing to bet it would be more successful if it toned that down.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 9:07PM
#255
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2013
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The idea that "sex sells" is actually a pretty outdated one in that form of simplicity, and you won't find many experienced marketing experts nowadays that'll seriously advocate it unless you are actually trying to sell pornography.
Tell that to Dolce & Gabbana (estimated net worth of over $630 Million), Versace (estimated net worth of $1.4 Billion), and too many others to mention. Just a brief glance around their websites will make a feminist's head explode. Pretty sure those companies know a little more about marketing than any of us on this forum do.
Now, if we're done freaking out over the sexist art that isn't there (and won't be there), can we maybe get back to discussing how funny looking those Halflings are?
The 2 core goals of DDN:
1. Create a version of D&D that embraces the enduring, core elements of the game.
2. Create a set of rules that allows a smooth transition from a simple game to a complex one.
- Mike Mearls
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 9:09PM
#256
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2008
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For those who think that, simple put, "sex sells", here are some articles you might want to take a look at when you have the time. [1] [2] [3] [4]
For a good example of some plate-kinis one has to go no further then World of Warcraft...
Are you suggesting that World of Warcraft would be less successful without that horribly exaggerated sexual dimorphism? Because I'd bet the opposite. WoW's success has nothing to do with its sexualization of female characters. If anything, I'd be willing to bet it would be more successful if it toned that down.
It's impossible to know either way. I personnally like the option of transmogging my gear into skimpy stuff on my BE. Not so much on my goblin though... Well, even my goblin. All critters are sexy! People have different tastes and levels of tolerance. I don't think realistic, fantasy art that depicted how people and captured foes really were treated would fly... So might as well err on the side of a bit of scandolous. Now of course I am not advocating nothing but that but a little doesn't hurt. Hell I miss my topless succubi from 1st edition... PC makes me frown.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 9:18PM
#257
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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Crimson_Concerto deserves some kind of award.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 9:23PM
#258
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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So when I show and ask 10 women tomorrow whether they think 4e's art is sexualizing the women, and 9 answer no - it's still sexualization.
Correct. Popular opinion != truth.
In this case, the definition of sexism, in which one gender is devalued, objectified, or disempowered by rhetoric or imagery which undercuts them, is the only determining factor. By that definition, much of the art in the fantasy genre - including a good deal of D&D's art, historically - is sexist. The nice thing is that, with a new edition in the offing, there's a good opportunity here to decide not to continue in that vein.
Guys who think chainmail bikinis are "hot" need their heads checked. There's nothing "hot" about some idiot who decides to sacrifice comfort and practicality, particularly in a life-threatening occupation like dungeon-delver, in order to impress the local neanderthals with the size of her mammary glands. Stupid is never sexy.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 9:24PM
#259
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I will say that I wish male characters in WoW were presented much better (aside from the blood elves) they are pretty damn puggly.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 21, 2013 - 9:26PM
#260
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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I will say that I wish male characters in WoW were presented much better (aside from the blood elves) they are pretty damn puggly.
Ugly male-Sexy female paradigm... yup. As I've said, that's an aesthetic that needs to change.
Disgruntled ghost of the Knights of W.T.F.
(Keep D&D alive, end the edition wars!)
"And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Disclaimer: Most of my posts are based on opinions (and are sometimes humorous, other times inspirational)
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