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4 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 4:39PM
#21
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Eh, no more so than it would be on any other power with the same damage instances per hit (e.g. Fury's Advance).
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4 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 4:57PM
#22
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Five Stars Five Strikes added. It's a very mild improvement on the average numbers (since it's thrown into the same generic round category as Backlash), but does give us a third turn of standard-creaming goodness.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:05AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2006
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I thought the premise of taking DWA to begin with was one of those questionable things no ?
It was an argument back in the day, but it's been in open use and unerrata'd for so long that I don't think anyone really opposes it anymore.
... and this has happened in previous editions. If they wanted to take care of it ; but they didn't.
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new helpful bg/mmx refugee locale ---> http://www.ruleofcool.com/smf/index.php/topic,632.0.html
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 12:09PM
#24
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Well, that and the result vs. investmentment for PMCing isn't even that high, so it's difficult to complain about on that front either.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 1:13PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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Depends on how literal you want to get about RAW. Retraining has this to say: Page 28 PHB: "When your class table tells you to replace a power you know with a different power of a higher level, that doesn't count as retraining."
i.e. so as PMC doesn't tell you that you're picking an at-will of a higher level, just an at-will, it does count as retraining when you replace the at-will with another at-will.
And then retraining says this: "You can replace a power with another power of the same type of the same level or lower, and from the same class"
As PMC specifically only overrides the from the same class, you must replace the at-will with one of the same level or lower. Because DWA doesn't have a level, it doesn't qualify.
Again, depends on how literal you want to get. On the one hand, they obviously didn't intend for PMC to trigger the retraining rules and lose a retraining for 11th level. On the other hand, they obviously didn't intend for PMC to pick non-1st level at-wills.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 1:41PM
#26
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PMC is not your class table, so that's completely and entirely irrelevant. Why even mention it?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 2:56PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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PMC is not your class table, so that's completely and entirely irrelevant. Why even mention it?
Because they call out class table as the option that is not using the retraining rules. It makes it an exception to a general rule. i.e. when you replace powers, you use the retraining rules unless when there are exceptions listed. PMC only calls out that you're allowed to pick from another class. That's the one exception it makes. And it specifically mentions replacing powers. In addition, the Power section of Retraining doesn't say that applies when you retrain. It just says when you replace a power.
i.e. if you're going by the literal RAW, that means PMC needs to use the retraining rules because it is not the class table, does not specify using a higher level power, involves replacing a power, and does not have an exception other than which class you're allowed to pick.
As I mentioned, extremely unlikely to be intent. They were almost certainly trying to be absolutely clear that general power replacement didn't involve retraining. But they didn't say replacing powers, they called out the table instead for whatever reason.
And for further literal options, it isn't actually 100% clear that meant that retraining wouldn't cover general replacement - they literally may have meant that you do follow the general rules of retraining(except you can pick a higher level power), it just doesn't count as your one use of retraining per level. That isn't actually relevant except that it might mean that how the literal reading of retraining works is intended to affect PMC in the way I describe.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 3:11PM
#28
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That's not the literal RAW, because there is nothing in the rules that connects those two elements of the game together. You're making the specious claim that all replacements rely on the retraining system, when the reality is that the retraining system and all other replacement methods (e.g. powerswap feats, PMCing) are unrelated exceptions to the general rule that you can't change options once you've taken them. So, no, completely irrelevant.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 3:49PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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That's not the literal RAW, because there is nothing in the rules that connects those two elements of the game together. You're making the specious claim that all replacements rely on the retraining system, when the reality is that the retraining system and all other replacement methods (e.g. powerswap feats, PMCing) are unrelated exceptions to the general rule that you can't change options once you've taken them. So, no, completely irrelevant.
:shrug:
If you were correct, there is no reason to call out the class table, because it would be a separate element under your theory and therefore automatically not subject to retraining. They did call out the class table, so literally, they're not the separate elements you think they are.
(edit: also, power swap feats and other power replacement methods except PMC specifically call out how they're supposed to work in a way that is different than retraining)
If you want to use context to decide that it is specious or unintended, that's up to you.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 4:21PM
#30
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The class table and retraining are both replacing powers on level-up, so the author thought a reminder that they are not related systems was worth inserting.
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