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Switch to Forum Live View Good Templates (Even High LA ones?)
5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 11:49PM #11
frost.fire
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2012
Posts: 286
My vote would be for a feral mineral warrior wartroll, not really optimized but the picture of that thing would be crazy scary!
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 18, 2013 - 12:25PM #12
awaken_D_M_golem
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 2,673
1st level of Half-Fey = diplomancer

1st level of Ghost Progression Template = incorporeal

Phrenic +2la = decent low Tier 4 addition to a build

Major Bloodline + appropriate build = fun and games


EDIT --- oops wasn't clear on a few specifics
Hush kitty avatar ... there'll be more Younglings soon.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 18, 2013 - 2:37PM #13
WizardDidIt
Date Joined: Nov 24, 2012
Posts: 79
I had a lot of fun playing a weretiger in a campaign, it's a +3LA to be a natural werecreature, meaning full control over transformations and DR 10/silver (+2LA for afflicted, DR 5/silver and no control). Weretigers get +12 str, +4 dex and con.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 18, 2013 - 3:19PM #14
Tempest_Stormwind
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 4,904

Jan 18, 2013 -- 2:37PM, WizardDidIt wrote:

I had a lot of fun playing a weretiger in a campaign, it's a +3LA to be a natural werecreature, meaning full control over transformations and DR 10/silver (+2LA for afflicted, DR 5/silver and no control). Weretigers get +12 str, +4 dex and con.



This would also be inappropriately done here, as he has seven free level adjustments, but no free hit dice, and lycanthropes add the hit dice of the animal to their own HD (in effect, when you become a natural weretiger (tigers have 6 HD), you gain six levels of animal and a +3 level adjustment, so a natural weretiger is actually nine levels higher than he was earlier as far as things like XP are concerned).

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series: Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows:
[TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)


Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 18, 2013 - 5:10PM #15
The_Fred
Date Joined: Jan 4, 2012
Posts: 3,204

Jan 17, 2013 -- 3:59PM, StevenO wrote:

Secondly, how it your DM handelling LA and Gestalt?  I know that when I see the two I just let LA fill one "side" of a Gestalt build opposite actual class levels.


Given they are free, I imagine they're just added on (i.e. not gestalted).

In general, Draconic (+1) and Phrenic (+2) are two templates which I think offer a good return. Half-Fey is IIRC +2 also but it's not too dissimilar to Phrenic in many ways. The Blooded One template (+1) from Unapproachable East (I think, it's an FR book anyway) is a decent alternative to Draonic in may cases.

Since you have so much free LA, though, you could get away with a lot of things which might be sub-optimal otherwise. Hey, a Phrenic Half-Fey Cha-based caster would be horrible, all that +Cha and two sets of SLAs to dump on top of their gestalt spellcasting (because why take one spellcaster, when you could take two? Sorcerer|Dread Necro, maybe?).

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 18, 2013 - 8:13PM #16
Slagger_the_Chuul
Date Joined: May 26, 2001
Posts: 5,270

Jan 18, 2013 -- 5:10PM, The_Fred wrote:

Since you have so much free LA, though, you could get away with a lot of things which might be sub-optimal otherwise. Hey, a Phrenic Half-Fey Cha-based caster would be horrible, all that +Cha and two sets of SLAs to dump on top of their gestalt spellcasting (because why take one spellcaster, when you could take two? Sorcerer|Dread Necro, maybe?).


I've played a phrenic half-fey kaorti without any free LA (as a racial base for a Fiend of Possession).

Woodling has a fun combination of abilities if you can also cover up the fire vulnerability, and voidmind would be good except for the part about being controlled by mind flayers.

If you go for a spellcaster (or anyone else for whom low Strength and Small size aren't a problem), pixies are inordinately good, giving you flight, greater invisibility, damage reduction, level-based spell resistance, and solid ability score bonuses to everything except Strength, all for a +4 LA.  If you were aiming to kill enemy spellcasters, this would be for the sneakier side of things.

The kraken stirs.  And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance.  - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.


= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience. Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness.  It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end.  Each button produces a different effect when pressed.  Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed.
        When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle.
        When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets.
        When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall.
        When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade.
        When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid.  Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water.
If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours.
    Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 19, 2013 - 8:47AM #17
WizardDidIt
Date Joined: Nov 24, 2012
Posts: 79

Jan 18, 2013 -- 3:19PM, Tempest_Stormwind wrote:

Jan 18, 2013 -- 2:37PM, WizardDidIt wrote:

I had a lot of fun playing a weretiger in a campaign, it's a +3LA to be a natural werecreature, meaning full control over transformations and DR 10/silver (+2LA for afflicted, DR 5/silver and no control). Weretigers get +12 str, +4 dex and con.



This would also be inappropriately done here, as he has seven free level adjustments, but no free hit dice, and lycanthropes add the hit dice of the animal to their own HD (in effect, when you become a natural weretiger (tigers have 6 HD), you gain six levels of animal and a +3 level adjustment, so a natural weretiger is actually nine levels higher than he was earlier as far as things like XP are concerned).


Whoops forgot the tiger HD, ignore my suggestion.

I'd have to agree with pixie being a top choice for any spell based character, pretty much addresses every concern a low level caster will have in terms of survivability. Another interesting template is half-fiend, +4LA for a whole bunch of bonuses and stat boosts.

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