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Switch to Forum Live View Epic Dragon 3.5 Requests
5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 3:01AM #1
Dark_Ansem
Date Joined: Nov 15, 2012
Posts: 24
I am using the monster advancer but apparently it does not account for Epic Dragons at all. or for any adjustment over hit dice.

That is why I ask the community to advance some dragons for me, I am getting very confused and ultimately I cannot do it

I need advancement for Shadow, Red, Gold and Time Dragon.
Time Dragon (Dragon 359 for the actual stats): advanced to level 144

Shadow, Gold and Red Dragon: Advanced to levels 50 and 55 (stats found in Draconomicon for their Great Wyrm level)

can someone help me? thanks in advance!
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 8:52AM #2
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,332
I don't do epic so I may not be any help but what do you mean when you say "advanced to level" 144, 50, or 55?  Are you looking for those creatures to be advanced to that many HD?  Where there Equivalent Character Level (ECL) would be that high?  To where there CR is that high?  There are unfortunately many ways to look at "level" in the game.

I also wonder how you want them advanced.  As dragons or are you advancing them with class levels?  Advancing them with racial HD is actually pretty easy because racial HD are not subjected to the Epic rules regarding BAB and Save.  I do seem to remember seeing somewhere that creatures can look an their HD to determine eligability requirements for Epic feats (Epic is 21+ HD) although even if you just let creatures with CR 20+ access epic feats that should be easy enough for a dragon.

Although it may seem completely irrelevant I'd point out that the Great Wyrm Red and Gold dragons are already "epic"challenges.  At old age (and gargantuan size) the Gold Dragon passes CR 20 and at great wyrm is CR 27.  The same is true for the Red Dragon although it is only CR 26 as a Great Wyrm.
 
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 11:59AM #3
Dark_Ansem
Date Joined: Nov 15, 2012
Posts: 24
I meant them to advance to that Hit Dice.

when I mean advanced I mean this
www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonA...
also found in the epic rules handbook.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 1:42PM #4
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,332
I'm still not sure what you're looking for but I'll say I'm not about to try and completely fill out the sheet for an epic dragon.  Now using the information in that link is this the kind of "help" you are looking for?

Epic Gold Dragon (age category 16) CR 35
Size C+
HD 55d12+825 (1183 hp ave)
STR 55, DEX 10 CON 41, INT 36, WIS 37, CHA 36
BAB/Grap:  +55/+93
Attack +69
Saves:  Fort +44, REF +29, WILL +42
Breat Weapon 32d10 (save 52)
Frightful Presence DC 50
fly speed 300 ft;
DR 15/epic;
AC 56 = -8 size +54 natural;
Caster Level 27,
SR 41
Bonus feat:  Improved Spell Capacity x2 
Total number of general feats 19 (5 may be epic)
Skill Points:  1102 (max ranks 58) 
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 2:54PM #5
Dark_Ansem
Date Joined: Nov 15, 2012
Posts: 24
it is, for a beginning :D needs more detail but thanks!
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 3:03PM #6
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,332

Jan 17, 2013 -- 2:54PM, Dark_Ansem wrote:

it is, for a beginning :D needs more detail but thanks!


Sorry but figuring out where to put about 20 feats, distribute 1102 skill points (that's still 19 skills at +58 RANKS and even 29 ranks as cross-class skills), and what spells to select is NOT something that is just easy to do.  Although this is a "standard" Advanced Dragon there are just so many ways to optimize this that the possiblities are nearly endless.  There is no way to give you details when you don't provide any details on how you plan to use that monster.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 3:06PM #7
Dark_Ansem
Date Joined: Nov 15, 2012
Posts: 24
no no, I mean the details for the various attacks and special qualities. what you say should come later base first, refinment later.
don't think I do not appreciate the Gold dragon, thanks again!
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 5:03PM #8
Oma012
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2011
Posts: 1,795
Ok under the draconomicon exist 3.5 rules to update the dragons you can see a example in Power of Faerun (a red dragon CR 40) pag 121 and the rules of epic dragons in the pag 99 of Draconomicon say how advance the dragon, remember that a dragon can select epic feat starting her old age category.

Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 5:40PM #9
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,332

Jan 17, 2013 -- 3:06PM, Dark_Ansem wrote:

no no, I mean the details for the various attacks and special qualities. what you say should come later base first, refinment later.
don't think I do not appreciate the Gold dragon, thanks again!


I was just using the SRD for the information I got.  I'll admit I didn't show how the DCs and perhap uses/day of various abilities abilities changed but using the information I just saw you do NOT get any new special qualities except you get DR/epic and can now affect creatures as an epic weapon.

As for your attacks you just need to look up the Epic Dragon section to see what changes regarding attacks, space and reach, and the area your breath weapon covers.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 17, 2013 - 8:54PM #10
Vortsukoto
Date Joined: Jan 6, 2013
Posts: 130
Oma is right. Draconomicon pg. 86-100 has a few dragon specific Prestige Classes, as well as rules for advancing dragons past Great Wyrm via "virtual age categories" rather than just via adding hit dice. The "virtual age category" progression is a refinement and update of rules for doing so that were put forth in the Epic Level Handbook.

It's worth noting though that that is an optional manner of progression. As intelligent creatures, Dragons can progress by taking class levels just as a bugbear or human might, or can continue to take Dragon hit dice in a manner similar to any other creature progressing in their racial hit dice. (The dragon's hit dice are outlined on page 308 of the Monster Manuel.)
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