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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:24PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2013
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So to clarify what I mean when I say "power with multiple instances of damage" I am referring to powers like Hellfire Rebuke or Chains of Levistus.
So let's say you've got a warlock with a +2 dagger (he used a feat to gain access to daggers as an implement).
Assuming no other feats or modifiers, he casts Chains of Levistus and hits his target for 2d6+con+2(from the dagger)+1d6(for curse) cold damage. If the target moves before EoNT then the target is subjected to more cold damage. Now I know the target will at least take an additional 2d6+con (as listed in the power description) as well as additional 1d6 from the curse (because it's a new turn). Will the enhancement bonus from the dagger also apply to this damage?
Taking things one step further, if our warlock has a +2 flaming dagger, then Chains would instead inflict 2d6+con+2+1d6 fire damage (as opposed to cold). Is the damage incurred on the move also convereted to fire? (I would assume that if the weapon's enhancement bonus applies then so would its properties...)
Thanks for your help!
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:36PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Yes, bonuses and effects apply to all instances of damage caused by a power, there is no external limitation, only the conditions specified by the bonuses or effects. This means that both Hellish Rebuke damage instances get enhancement bonus to damage rolls, because they're both damage rolls.
It should be noted that Flaming Weapon technically has been updated to only change untyped damage to fire, but since none of the rest of the similar weapons were changed and it wasn't overpowered, this change is often ignored.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:38PM
#3
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1) Yes. It's a seperate damage roll, and will get all the benifits. (char-op loves such powers).
2) Yes. In fact, you could cast the spell, drop the dagger in a portal to another plane, and it would still apply.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:54PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2013
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Thanks guys!
Yeah, I realized after the fact that flaming was different, but didn't think it was different enough for the purposes of the example to warrant changing it.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:08PM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Chain of Levistus is not another instance of damage, its an extra damage, which means it will be in addition to the attack's damage, which will already have these damage bonuses added and thus won't add again due to stacking rules saying typed bonus don't stack, nor are untyped bonus from the same named game element. Hit: 2d6 + Constitution modifier cold damage. If the target moves before the end of your next turn, it takes 2d6 extra cold damage.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:32PM
#6
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That wouldn't make any sense. The attack happens and is resolved. If the target moves later the 2d6 isn't added onto the resolved damage. It has its own roll. If that weren't explicitly clear, the Explosive Pyre FAQ is also called extra damage and explicitly says it gets bonuses to damage rolls. "Extra" in this meaning additional damage, not "extra damage."
Sloppy writing is often sloppy.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:34PM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Yes its added to the attack's damage, because its a extra damage. Wether its resolved or not doesn't matter to the extra damage rule. What matter is that its in addition to it, extra damage are never seperate instance of damage.
Its the same as Hunther's Quarry. Are you saying Rangers get to add their bonuses over again on the extra damage ? No they don't, because its an extra damage.
Sorry, extra damage is extra damage in 4E its a defined term.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:38PM
#8
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You're wrong, according to the official FAQ and the rules. You can't just tack on extra damage after the damage is resolved. Extra damage does not work that way. It must be added at the time damage is resolved. Quarry is a specific exception to this, because it says it is. And at that Quarry is worded such that you can add it to any attack you made during the turn, but it still adds to that attack, so you rewind time and add it, because it says to.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:38PM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Explosire Pyre is not an extra damage so it get bonuses since its a seperate instance of damage. The FAQ is wrong is saying it is one though. Hit: 2d8 + Charisma modifier fire damage. Until the start of your next turn, any enemy that enters a square adjacent to the target or starts its turn there takes 1d6 fire damage. An enemy can take this damage only once per turn.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:40PM
#10
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Explosire Pyre is not an extra damage so it get bonuses since its a seperate instance of damage.
Hit: 2d8 + Charisma modifier fire damage. Until the start of your next turn, any enemy that enters a square adjacent to the target or starts its turn there takes 1d6 fire damage. An enemy can take this damage only once per turn.
Hellish Rebuke. You're still wrong.
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