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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:27PM
#41
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2011
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I think they're talking about the fact that nobody (except maybe the vampire) in the current party has any meaningful way of making it hard for an opponent in melee to go off and punch someone else at will.
From which I deduce that you've never seen an Alpha-strike party in action. 
Can't say that I have, but then aside from one LA where we had a Warlord, the only time I've ever seen anyone playing an enabling leader was me playing a bard. 
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:29PM
#42
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Refuse to heal least optimized striker. They die and have to reroll. Make them role something useful to the party. No? They die again. Repeat till your party is more cooperative in playing this cooperative role playing game. Considering some of them go off on their own in fights this shouldn't be difficult at all.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:32PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
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Kilpads, the vampire is late paragon. No indication it has a good MBA, though who knows.
Oof. Ok, that hurts. That leaves you with plenty of RBA users (which still gives you two-hit powers. Just not Death from Two Sides) and movement-based enabling.
And since you're paragon, a Warlord basically lets you stun half the monsters on turn-1, which REALLY should help reduce incoming damage in a high-striker party. (IE, the benefit of having silly initiative modifiers). Not only am I still suggesting a warlord, I'd still be comfortable bringing my lazylord.
Human Bard Warchanter might be suitable here as well. Why human? Because when your Rogue falls down, you've MC'd into Warlord for Avenging Spirit for extra action points(among other things) - optimize around your Rogue getting beaten to a senseless pulp...
Just be half-elf
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:34PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
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Sorry for the double post but I love how much we're talking about OAs. When is the LAST late paragon game you guys played where the monsters provoked on a usual basis?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:37PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2008
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Sorry for the double post but I love how much we're talking about OAs. When is the LAST late paragon game you guys played where the monsters provoked on a usual basis?
Completely irrelevant, because it ignores the party comp. You ask that question without asking the companion question: When is the LAST late paragon game you guys played in where the monsters could provoke on a usual basis without getting their heads handed to them?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:38PM
#46
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2005
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Just for clarification, the Warlock has a good optimized RBA, and the Vampire has Vampire Slam as an MBA. The rogue, to my knowledge, has not optimized any of his basic attacks, though with his Dex, his RBA shouldn't be bad.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:39PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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I think they're talking about the fact that nobody [...] in the current party has any meaningful way of making it hard for an opponent in melee to go off and punch someone else at will.
From which I deduce that you've never seen an Alpha-strike party in action.
Can't say that I have
My warlord is not an opimized one, because it's a lazy lord.
But there have been a large number of combats he's been involved in where it was impossible for monsters to focus fire in round 2 ... ... ... Because They Were All Dead.
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:43PM
#48
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2005
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Also, while I greatly appreciate the expertise and suggestions all of you have brought, I would gently remind some of you that I am looking for advice on what I should be doing, not extended critiques of the rest of the players in my party or my DM. You may all well be accurate in your assessments, but it's neither here nor there, because nobody is going to change his or her play style to accommodate me, nor should they. Generally speaking, we're having fun as a group -- I just want to build a character that will be a better fill-in for the leader/defender gap created by the rest of my party choosing to play only strikers. In any case, getting back to the warlord-or-not? discussion, taclord is something I'm looking at heavily, mainly for the BA enabling. I just have to make sure I don't wind up taking a power that only enables an MBA.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:45PM
#49
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Also, while I greatly appreciate the expertise and suggestions all of you have brought, I would gently remind some of you that I am looking for advice on what I should be doing, not extended critiques of the rest of the players in my party or my DM. You may all well be accurate in your assessments, but it's neither here nor there, because nobody is going to change his or her play style to accommodate me, nor should they. Generally speaking, we're having fun as a group -- I just want to build a character that will be a better fill-in for the leader/defender gap created by the rest of my party choosing to play only strikers.
In any case, getting back to the warlord-or-not? discussion, taclord is something I'm looking at heavily, mainly for the BA enabling. I just have to make sure I don't wind up taking a power that only enables an MBA.
I think you'll find if they start dying, they'll change. There really is no reason for them to be so selfish. 4e is dependent on working as a team.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 3:45PM
#50
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2005
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I'm also intrigued by the Warpriest / Dizzying Mace suggestion, as I have been trying to build a decent Dizzying Mace character purely for my own amusement for a while now.
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