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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:14PM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2005
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Hi guys, I'm currently playing a radiant cleric (level 18) in a party otherwise entirely composed of strikers (human warlock, drow rogue, revenant vampire). Due to the lack of a defender, I'm finding that even routine combats drain us of too many resources. Moreover, my radiant cleric gets hit way too frequently and thus is as likely to use healing word on himself as he is on another party member. So I'm thinking of changing characters. My question for y'all is: what leader class (and within that class, build) would be the most effective at simulating a defender while still providing the important leader abilities (healing, buff, etc.)? Tentatively, I feel like a tactical or inspiring warlord would be the way to go, but I'd like a second (and third and fourth  ) opinion. Cheers
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:20PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Genasi Taclord.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:23PM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2005
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Genasi Taclord.
Thanks. Would you mind expanding on that answer, perhaps giving me some insight on what aspects of a Genasi Taclord build fulfill my desired role? Any tips or tricks you have would be appreciated.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:25PM
#4
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One option would be to hybrid Cleric|Fighter and actually BE a defender also. Clerics have enough healing powers you will be fine without one Healing Word. Taking Battle Cleric's Lore over Healer's Lore will help you be hit less and not cost you a feat even.
A Warlord would help up the damage and end combats faster but don't have the buffed heals and that party is likely to get tagged a lot even if it's a little less. Bravura or Resourceful would be good choices if your party is very accurate, TacLord otherwise.
Another other option would be to play a Pacifist Cleric so your healing is ridiculously boosted, but that's not something I would recommend.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:32PM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2005
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One option would be to hybrid Cleric|Fighter and actually BE a defender also. Clerics have enough healing powers you will be fine without one Healing Word.
I've been trying to avoid going hybrid.  But I will consider that option, thanks.
Taking Battle Cleric's Lore over Healer's Lore will help you be hit less and not cost you a feat even.
Oh, my radiant cleric already has BCL and has 4x uses of Healing Word most combats (Gambler's Word feat). But I'm a complete HP pinata for the bad guys, partly because of the stat double-up of the build (WIS primary, CHA secondary leave my Fort and Ref in pitiful shape).
A Warlord would help up the damage and end combats faster but don't have the buffed heals and that party is likely to get tagged a lot even if it's a little less.
On the other hand, feat support allows warlords to throw out Inspiring Word quite often during a combat.
Bravura or Resourceful would be good choices if your party is very accurate, TacLord otherwise.
Two of the three strikers are very accurate (the warlock and the rogue). The third striker (vampire) is less accurate, mainly because the player isn't really an optimizer.
Another other option would be to play a Pacifist Cleric so your healing is ridiculously boosted, but that's not something I would recommend.
I don't think I'd go that route either. Plus the flavour of it doesn't really appeal to me.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:34PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Yes a Warlord may help, but I suspect your problems may not be so much due to a lack of defender, but more due to a general lack of optimization, in addition to the lack of a front line. Clerics can have very good defenses, so you shouldn't be so much of a practice dummy. The Vampire is likely a drain on everyone's resources. And if the drow rogue is low surge and likes to hide, that's going to be loads more pain for the rest of you. In a party of 4, sharing damage is pretty important.
If you're going to try Warlord, I'd suggest hybriding Artificer, so at least you get some surge redistribution options. Not sure if your warlock is Con based or not, but if he is, sharing his surges can go a long way.
Your DM also should take your party composition into consideration when designing adventures. If you're always running out of resources too soon, he may need to rethink his methods.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:44PM
#7
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The hybrid in My sig has done very well for me thus far in LFR games running either role Defender and Leader. I need to get around to updating the heroic level powers though. Thinking that rejuvenating strike and swordmage decree would be preferable to armathors Step and Watchers Strike. Probably should go with aegis of assault until you pick up greater swordmage shielding. Ill get the post updated somewhat later.
Keep in mind it gets complicated......
Move action (teleport to boost AC and Reflex extremely high)
Minor Action: Mark multiple Targets
Standard: Grant ally a basic attack
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:44PM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2005
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Yes a Warlord may help, but I suspect your problems may not be so much due to a lack of defender, but more due to a general lack of optimization, in addition to the lack of a front line.
You may be right, though I'd say three of us (myself, the warlock's player, and the rogue's player) aren't shabby at optimization.
Clerics can have very good defenses, so you shouldn't be so much of a practice dummy.
True, and this is where I have to own up to a mistake in my previous thinking. I took radiant cleric thinking that I'd concentrate on burst damage to help us stay ahead of the damage curve, but now I'm finding that things aren't playing out the way I envisioned they would. Hence my desire to switch characters.
I can certainly make a cleric with high defenses, but that cleric is still going to find it difficult to stop enemies from moving away from him and focus-firing on his allies.
The Vampire is likely a drain on everyone's resources. And if the drow rogue is low surge and likes to hide, that's going to be loads more pain for the rest of you. In a party of 4, sharing damage is pretty important.
I hear you, but the rest of my party are individualists who like what they like and don't think about party composition much, if at all. This is how I ended up in the position I'm in. Everyone else decided they wanted to go striker, so I volunteered to fill the leader/defender void. It's not that we don't work well together in combat; we do. It's just that when it comes time to building one's own character, everyone but me is off in their own world doing their own thing.
If you're going to try Warlord, I'd suggest hybriding Artificer, so at least you get some surge redistribution options. Not sure if your warlock is Con based or not, but if he is, sharing his surges can go a long way.
The warlock is indeed CON-based. As I said earlier, I'm not wild about the prospect of hybriding, just due to my own bizarre taste, but that suggestion is very welcome and I'll consider it if I do decide to hybrid. Thanks.
Your DM also should take your party composition into consideration when designing adventures. If you're always running out of resources too soon, he may need to rethink his methods.
He tries, and I've recently told him of my concerns, so maybe his encounters will change. But regardless of what he does, I feel that I myself need to change characters. The radiant cleric would be fine in a normal party with every role filled, but in this particular context, he isn't cutting it, and that's my fault for not thinking the situation through when building the character.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:45PM
#9
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Yeah, it seems like that party screams "Kill us in any order you want" (depending)
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:53PM
#10
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Looks like my sig link is broken.... Well its under the hyrbid section for leader-defender..
Thundering Vortex, Death From two sides and either Rejevenating strike or Watchers Strike (both Level 7 SM) should probably be the encounter powers depending on whether you want more heals or marks. Ive havent been able to test it beyond level 11 however so mielage may vary.
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