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Switch to Forum Live View MDD maneuver competes with [W]
5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 8:53AM #41
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,514

Jan 14, 2013 -- 8:33AM, Orzel wrote:

Actually I like the math to be hidden in the system and the core to be simple Martial Two handed heavy- 1d12 Two handed heavy reach- 1d10 Two handed finesse- 1d10 Two handed finesse reach- 1d8 One handed-1d10 One handed thrown- 1d6 One handed finesse-1d8 One handed light finesse- 1d6 One handed light thrown- 1d4


This.

Brutal: When weilding this weapon, you reroll any natural "1" on your damage roll.
Keen: When weilding this weapon, you score a critical hit on a 19 or 20
Light: You can weild a light weapon in your other hand.  When you do so, your weapon damage is 2d4.  You can also weild a shield in your other hand instead.
Versatile: You can weild this weapon two-handed. Doing so increases the weapon die to d10. You can also weild a shield in your other hand instead.
Reach: You can attack targets five feet from you.  Attacking adjacent targets incurs disadvantage.
Two-Handed: This weapon requires two hands to weild.


Brutal slows the game down for minimal gain (especailly on d10 weapons).
Keen is not balanced.  It could be, but it would be difficult.
Light sounds too complicated.  It should just add 1d4 to your main-hand attack.
Versatile is ok.  But i'm not sure it really helps anything.
Reach is too complicated, not to mention basicly a straight negitive with the current OA rules.
Two-handed is fine.

 

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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
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The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
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Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 9:03AM #42
wrecan
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mellored: Brutal slows the game down for minimal gain (especailly on d10 weapons).
Actually, it's only going to happen 1-in-10 hits.  Even on a 4[w] roll, it happens 1-in-3 hits, which is like 1-in-5 attacks.  It's no slower than the current advantage system, which is lauded for keeping things quick.

mellored: Keen is not balanced.  It could be, but it would be difficult.
How is it not balanced?

mellored: Light sounds too complicated.  It should just add 1d4 to your main-hand attack.
Then your [w] would be d6+d4 is you weild a shortsword and dagger.  [w]=2d4 is as simple as it gets and it lets you roll two dice for two-weapon fighting, which preserves the feel of weilding two weapons.

mellored: Versatile is ok.  But i'm not sure it really helps anything.
It keeps damage balanced.

mellored: Reach is too complicated, not to mention basicly a straight negitive with the current OA rules.
What's complicated about disadvantage against adjacent creatures?  And, yes.  It's a negative to make up for the increased damage that such weapons receive.  Reach weapons are intended for use by the guy in the second row of a marching order and is then dropped when the monsters break through the first line.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 9:04AM #43
Lawolf
Date Joined: May 4, 2008
Posts: 4,304
I think dual-wielding should work as a single weapon.  

Dual Wield - d8 damage, requires both hands, allows you to make two-attacks but each one only deals 1/2 damage. 

You could also have Light Dual Wield - d6 damage, finesse, requires both hands.

Compared to a two handed weapon you trade some damage for versatility in the form of better chance to apply conditions, the ability to attack multiple targets,  and better minion clearing capabilities. This greatly simplifies dual wielding.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 9:06AM #44
Garthanos
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2009
Posts: 17,807

Jan 14, 2013 -- 8:53AM, wrecan wrote:

Jan 14, 2013 -- 8:48AM, Garthanos wrote:

I like the simplicity with a dash of interesting elements of the latest idea... i... what are you thinking for shield use... it could be treated as an off hand weapon actually.



It depends on the armor system.  I figure a shield grants you cover (how much depends on the size of the shield) against one attack as a reaction or cover against all attacks until your next begins as an action.



That to me really makes shield use seem kind of too passive.. 

Improvisation in 4e: Improv. Attacks(by wrecan) - Fave 4E Improvisations

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 9:07AM #45
wrecan
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Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:06AM, Garthanos wrote:

Jan 14, 2013 -- 8:53AM, wrecan wrote:

Jan 14, 2013 -- 8:48AM, Garthanos wrote:

I like the simplicity with a dash of interesting elements of the latest idea... i... what are you thinking for shield use... it could be treated as an off hand weapon actually.



It depends on the armor system.  I figure a shield grants you cover (how much depends on the size of the shield) against one attack as a reaction or cover against all attacks until your next begins as an action.



That to me really makes shield use seem kind of too passive.. 



As I said, whether the shield also gives you an AC boost depends on the math of the armor system.  What else do you want?

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 9:10AM #46
wrecan
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Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:04AM, Lawolf wrote:

Dual Wield - d8 damage, requires both hands, allows you to make two-attacks but each one only deals 1/2 damage.



Do you think two attacks every round will slow things down?  Particularly if used in conjunction with advantage or disadvantage?

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 9:12AM #47
Garthanos
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2009
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Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:07AM, wrecan wrote:

Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:06AM, Garthanos wrote:

Jan 14, 2013 -- 8:53AM, wrecan wrote:

Jan 14, 2013 -- 8:48AM, Garthanos wrote:

I like the simplicity with a dash of interesting elements of the latest idea... i... what are you thinking for shield use... it could be treated as an off hand weapon actually.



It depends on the armor system.  I figure a shield grants you cover (how much depends on the size of the shield) against one attack as a reaction or cover against all attacks until your next begins as an action.



That to me really makes shield use seem kind of too passive.. 



As I said, whether the shield also gives you an AC boost depends on the math of the armor system.  What else do you want?




hmmm I guess was thinking maneuvers but we do have some already dont we .... maybe nothing additionally needed. I do want parry to work with shields against ranged attacks. Parry should also standardly work vs thrown attacks. Shields as bashing/attacking tools dont seem quite covered

Improvisation in 4e: Improv. Attacks(by wrecan) - Fave 4E Improvisations

The Non-combatant Adventurer

Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness

Dynamic Reflavoring : The Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage
Creative Character Collection - Featuring:The Faerie Master - Snow White - Joxer - Ironman - Elric - Bloodwright

By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one

"You have to explicitly give non-casters permission to do awesome, where as with magic it is just assumed they can." -Garthanos

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 9:15AM #48
Lawolf
Date Joined: May 4, 2008
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Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:10AM, wrecan wrote:

Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:04AM, Lawolf wrote:

Dual Wield - d8 damage, requires both hands, allows you to make two-attacks but each one only deals 1/2 damage.



Do you think two attacks every round will slow things down?  Particularly if used in conjunction with advantage or disadvantage?




As both attack rolls should be rolled at the same time, no the slowdown (if any) should be relatively minor.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 9:21AM #49
wrecan
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Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:12AM, Garthanos wrote:

I guess was thinking maneuvers



Maneuvers are a separate discussion.  I'm just talking about the ultra-simple 16-page intro.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 9:22AM #50
wrecan
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Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:15AM, Lawolf wrote:

Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:10AM, wrecan wrote:

Jan 14, 2013 -- 9:04AM, Lawolf wrote:

Dual Wield - d8 damage, requires both hands, allows you to make two-attacks but each one only deals 1/2 damage.



Do you think two attacks every round will slow things down?  Particularly if used in conjunction with advantage or disadvantage?




As both attack rolls should be rolled at the same time, no the slowdown (if any) should be relatively minor.



They can't be rolled at the same time if you have advantage or disadvantage.  You have to keep the attack rolls separate.

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