|
5 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 10:27PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
|
So, UA is tossed out as a solid feat, a great way for classes like Wizards and Sorcerers to patch bad AC, and the path for Avengers and Monks to have really impressive AC.
But why is this feat rated so highly compared to feats like say, Solid Sound. Does that not do something similar for Force/Thunder builds? And yet we rate NADs as somehow less useful than AC, yet those of us who play at higher tiers KNOW that NADs become attacked more and more, whereas AC becomes less relevant. Now, I'm not arguing that AC is unimportant, but I am arguing that UA is overrated, especially come epic when you can retrain it to an Epic Defense feat. Give me +4 to Will over +2 to AC anyday.
Just Saying.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 10:37PM
#2
|
|
|
I think some of it comes from the "Always On" bias. Things that provide a constant bonus that can be seen right on the character sheet/builder get more consideration than a conditional, EVEN IF the condition is always going to be true.
Unarmored Agility is also available in Heroic, so it's pretty easy to slot into any build that's staying in cloth. I would consider retraining it for Epic Will (since you should have Superior anyway). It boils down to the wonderful standby of, "Well, it depends..."
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
One reach cheese'd threatening reach Spiked Chain shuts down any non-teleporting quarterback.
You're already refluffing, what not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:26AM
#3
|
|
|
I kind of hit this issue a while back regarding Avenger AC. A charge avenger is literally strait-jacketed into his feats going into paragon. What feat do you drop for any amount of build flexibility? Probably UA because the returns to investment simply gets lower and lower as you increase in levels and tier.
Would I rate it higher than Solid Sound though? Hell yeah. There are times when I realize I forgot a bonus that would have negated a hit somewhere, and would have to go back to a DM with an explanation and a mathmatical breakdown. I hate that. What's optimal is not always what's convienient, and the choices that get made at the end of the day are often what's convienient and also 'optimized enough'.
If going into paragon, and I haven't taken improved defenses yet, would I retrain UA for it though? In a heartbeat.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:34AM
#4
|
Date Joined:
May 27, 2011
|
I kind of hit this issue a while back regarding Avenger AC. A charge avenger is literally strait-jacketed into his feats going into paragon. What feat do you drop for any amount of build flexibility? Probably UA because the returns to investment simply gets lower and lower as you increase in levels and tier.
Would I rate it higher than Solid Sound though? Hell yeah. There are times when I realize I forgot a bonus that would have negated a hit somewhere, and would have to go back to a DM with an explanation and a mathmatical breakdown. I hate that. What's optimal is not always what's convienient, and the choices that get made at the end of the day are often what's convienient and also 'optimized enough'.
If going into paragon, and I haven't taken improved defenses yet, would I retrain UA for it though? In a heartbeat.
Why am I suddenly reminded of this OotS?
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 1:17AM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
|
If going into paragon, and I haven't taken improved defenses yet, would I retrain UA for it though? In a heartbeat.
This, basically. Maybe it should say in the handbooks that the feat becomes less valuable in paragon if it means your other defenses would suffer.
On the other hand, -10% to hit on a defense that nearly all monsters can target (with their basic attack, no less) is still really worth a feat.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 1:57AM
#6
|
|
|
Monsters use MBAs for things other than "Use your MBA twice" powers and wizard enduced "stop hitting yourself"? And even then AC tends to have the same issue as Ref - the attacks deal damage, I remember having this argument with nausicca because of her overrating Mass Charm, the number of creatures in upper Paragon with MBAs that do something other than damage (counting ongoing) or forced movement > 1 is not significant, right around 15% iirc.
I'll take a +1 Will over a +2 AC.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
Show
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 2:16AM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
|
Monsters use MBAs for things other than "Use your MBA twice" powers and wizard enduced "stop hitting yourself"? And even then AC tends to have the same issue as Ref - the attacks deal damage
UA is far from irrelevant against dragons and other elites/solo's with double attacks that use their MBA twice. Especially for cloth-wearers, who generally don't have a lot of HP anyway.
I'll take a +1 Will over a +2 AC.
At the cost of a feat that does nothing else? And at what level?
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 2:40AM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
|
Wanna know why we don't rate Solid Sound that highly Zel? Because anyone who would have half a reason to use thunder or force is not gonna be attacked in the first place in any quantity that matters. Not to say that Unarmored Agility is awesome or anything (I can think of very very few cases where I'd take it instead of leather armor proficiency, the bonuses from leather are immensely better), but Solid Sound is kind of a trap choice.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 5:40AM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
|
Wanna know why we don't rate Solid Sound that highly Zel? Because anyone who would have half a reason to use thunder or force is not gonna be attacked in the first place in any quantity that matters. Not to say that Unarmored Agility is awesome or anything (I can think of very very few cases where I'd take it instead of leather armor proficiency, the bonuses from leather are immensely better), but Solid Sound is kind of a trap choice.
Unless you are going to be using, say, a thunder power 2-3 times per turn... Then its kinda cool  .
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 5:57AM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
|
Wanna know why we don't rate Solid Sound that highly Zel? Because anyone who would have half a reason to use thunder or force is not gonna be attacked in the first place in any quantity that matters. Not to say that Unarmored Agility is awesome or anything (I can think of very very few cases where I'd take it instead of leather armor proficiency, the bonuses from leather are immensely better), but Solid Sound is kind of a trap choice.
Unless you are going to be using, say, a thunder power 2-3 times per turn... Then its kinda cool .
Since untyped bonuses from the same named game element don't stack, doesn't really matter how many times a turn you use it.
|
|
|
