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4 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 3:16PM
#11
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Yes it does, Plague. Anything that applies extra damage has to be part of the resolution of the base damage, so you can't wait for the base damage to be resolved before you apply the extra damage.
No it doesn't, since extra damage is in addition to the attack's damage anyway. Best exemple is Hunter's Quarry.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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4 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 3:19PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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You're telling me the best example is the one where it explicitly calls out an exception?
Really?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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4 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 3:21PM
#13
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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For exemple of extra damage applied as a Reaction, look at Wrathful Mastery, Alter Fate and True Alter Fate.
The extra damage doesn't have to interrupt since its in addition to the attack's damage anyway. Nor is the prone effect.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 6:26AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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The extra damage doesn't have to interrupt since its in addition to the attack's damage anyway
This is exactly why it must be an interrupt.
To illustrate, I ask you this:
I use Melee Basic Attack.
I hit.
I roll MBA's damage: 10.
I use Takedown Strike, which for me is 5 extra damage.
The target has Resist 5 All.
How many hitpoints does the target lose?
If you say 10, then Takedown Strike must be an interrupt. If you say Takedown Strike is a reaction, then you must say 5.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 8:16AM
#15
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Actually, I think Plague does have a point and Takedown Strike can work as a reaction vs. an interrupt. However, the three powers he mentioned (Wrathful Mastery, and the Alter Fates) above are bad examples. They're all reactions instead of no action (takedown). The key is in trigger timings. Takedown and the Alter Fates trigger's are 'hit' by an attack. Thus, the reaction would take place after the hit and before damage was applied. The extra damage can be included with damage resolution and resistances applied only once. Wrathful Mastery's trigger is 'hit and damaged', thus damage resolution already happened. Any resistances would affect both the original damage and the extra damage. Also, better examples to use may have been Power Strike, Assassin's Strike, Lesser Dimensional Step, or other such powers with a no action 'extra damage' component.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 8:21AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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The key is in trigger timings. Takedown and the Alter Fates trigger's are 'hit' by an attack. Thus, the reaction would take place after the hit and before damage was applied.
This is not how reactions work, though me saying so will start another argument. Please leave it alone, and just refrain from using this argument, for or against.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 9:22AM
#17
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I will not leave it alone. I ask for you to break an example down for us step-by-step. Give us your version. We know things work like a reaction before acting like an interrupt (i.e. no actions, free actions, etc). We also know that a reaction's trigger resloves before the reaction takes place. Takedown Strike is no action, and Alter Fate is an immediate reaction. Both apply thier extra damage to the attack. My argument is that since they both modify the Hit line of an attack, they both work fine as a reaction. For example:
During the Attack line of a power, my reaction's trigger is met. The Attack line continues to process until complete. Once the Attack line is completed, my reaction processes modifying the Hit line to add extra damage. Once the reaction is completed, the Hit line processes dealing extra damage. Any resistances are now applied. That is how reactions work. If you don't think so, break it down 'barney style' for me. Because I find it hard to think that resistance would be applied twice to Alter Fate and not Takedown Strike (based on your MBA example above).
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:05AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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I will not leave it alone. I ask for you to break an example down for us step-by-step. Give us your version.
You really, really don't want me to do that. Really.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:09AM
#19
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As usual, your holier than thou, ambiguous, I’m better than you answer. Sometimes I wonder what world you live in. You really, really don't want me to do that. Really.
Yes, I do.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:18AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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If you're starting off with insulting me, I don't see why I should oblige you.
Search for it yourself, the arguments have been made before, the usual participants are just going to come here and argue without resolving anything, it's not actually relevant to the question at hand (which is whether or not extra damage resolves when the damage resolves, which it does, because of the "extra damage is always in addition to other damage" rule).
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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