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5 months ago ::
Feb 05, 2013 - 11:04PM
#71
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So you're not saying that anyone is wrong to be unwilling to show support for the Realms if they don't like it, or its direction of late, and yet in that last sentence, you pretty much place blame on those who "wait and see" if the Realms fails to succeed... Which in essence is a pseudo-polite way of saying "Love it or Leave it" and to suck it up and buy it anyway. I sincerely hope WotC never hires you to do advertising, because that sort of attitude puts me off faster than anything else, no matter how politely it's phrased.
Gods but I wish they'd just divorce the novels from canon and be done with it...
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5 months ago ::
Feb 06, 2013 - 5:32AM
#72
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Eh, I dont think think he's really saying love it or leave it. I think that he's saying that if people don't start buying more novels, WotC will stop publishing them. Given his love of realms fiction, he's certainly welcome to blame people who arent buying, because...there is truth there. WotC will not stop publishing if the novels are moving off the shelves. That's pretty much an undeniable fact. They want the Benjamins. If people aren't buying though, ie, the novels are not profitable, they will not continue to publish them.
I'm saying, at this point, I don't really care if they stop publishing them or not. I haven't been reading them anyways, so no big deal to me either way. I guess that's about as clear as I can be.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 06, 2013 - 7:59AM
#73
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2012
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As far as I’m concerned, I’m done with FR. I start reading FR novels before I started playing DnD. I’ve bough many of them over 20 years and while I dislike some, I felt that they all added something to the settings. The Spellplague and the 100 years jump remove all the love I had for that settings. It’s like they added this line at the end of all my books : "And then they all die and all their efforts was for nothing". I don’t hate WOTC for doing that, hate is a strong word and I reserve my hatred for the people who will hurt my friends and family. They own the settings and are free to do whatever they want with it but, I, on the other hand, am free to boycott them. I will continue to collect the old novel that were release before 4th edition and will still run my campaigns using my 3rd FR sourcebook that I love but that's it. Over the years, I gave WOTC hundreds of dollards for FR materials but no more. Also, I disagree with the Star Trek comparaison. When The Next Generation debuted, the old show have been over for 20 years. Movies were still coming up but everyone know that, sooner or later, the actors would stop playing their roles. So the new series was a needed fresh start, it was that or Star Trek would have simply disappear. FR, on the other hand, was still going strong when the Spellplague happen. And beside, FR isn’t just about one party of adventurers like Star Trek was in the 60's.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 06, 2013 - 10:37AM
#74
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Eh, I dont think think he's really saying love it or leave it. I think that he's saying that if people don't start buying more novels, WotC will stop publishing them. Given his love of realms fiction, he's certainly welcome to blame people who arent buying, because...there is truth there. WotC will not stop publishing if the novels are moving off the shelves. That's pretty much an undeniable fact. They want the Benjamins. If people aren't buying though, ie, the novels are not profitable, they will not continue to publish them.
I'm saying, at this point, I don't really care if they stop publishing them or not. I haven't been reading them anyways, so no big deal to me either way. I guess that's about as clear as I can be.
Thanks Crazyhawk, that does sum up how I feel. of course I would never tell anyone that they HAD to buy the material or else. But those are the facts. And do I resent the hell out of people who turned their backs on the setting? Damn right I do. But that's everyone's choice. I lost Battletech and now I might lose the Realms. I appreciate the honesty about not caring. But I wish more people did care and were a little more open about the Realms.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 06, 2013 - 12:16PM
#75
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2012
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Eh, I dont think think he's really saying love it or leave it. I think that he's saying that if people don't start buying more novels, WotC will stop publishing them. Given his love of realms fiction, he's certainly welcome to blame people who arent buying, because...there is truth there. WotC will not stop publishing if the novels are moving off the shelves. That's pretty much an undeniable fact. They want the Benjamins. If people aren't buying though, ie, the novels are not profitable, they will not continue to publish them.
I'm saying, at this point, I don't really care if they stop publishing them or not. I haven't been reading them anyways, so no big deal to me either way. I guess that's about as clear as I can be.
Thanks Crazyhawk, that does sum up how I feel. of course I would never tell anyone that they HAD to buy the material or else. But those are the facts. And do I resent the hell out of people who turned their backs on the setting? Damn right I do. But that's everyone's choice. I lost Battletech and now I might lose the Realms. I appreciate the honesty about not caring. But I wish more people did care and were a little more open about the Realms.
It’s not me that turn his back on the Realms, it’s the Realms that turn it’s back on me. I like the Realms because it was a huge lands where stories didn’t always connect to each others because they weren’t world-shattering event. Now it’s a post-apocalyptic world that look nothing like the setting I’ve play in for so many years.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 06, 2013 - 2:21PM
#76
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Eh, I dont think think he's really saying love it or leave it. I think that he's saying that if people don't start buying more novels, WotC will stop publishing them. Given his love of realms fiction, he's certainly welcome to blame people who arent buying, because...there is truth there. WotC will not stop publishing if the novels are moving off the shelves. That's pretty much an undeniable fact. They want the Benjamins. If people aren't buying though, ie, the novels are not profitable, they will not continue to publish them.
I'm saying, at this point, I don't really care if they stop publishing them or not. I haven't been reading them anyways, so no big deal to me either way. I guess that's about as clear as I can be.
Thanks Crazyhawk, that does sum up how I feel. of course I would never tell anyone that they HAD to buy the material or else. But those are the facts. And do I resent the hell out of people who turned their backs on the setting? Damn right I do. But that's everyone's choice. I lost Battletech and now I might lose the Realms. I appreciate the honesty about not caring. But I wish more people did care and were a little more open about the Realms.
It’s not me that turn his back on the Realms, it’s the Realms that turn it’s back on me. I like the Realms because it was a huge lands where stories didn’t always connect to each others because they weren’t world-shattering event. Now it’s a post-apocalyptic world that look nothing like the setting I’ve play in for so many years.
Sorry, I don't buy this argument at all....not one bit. WoTC isn't around to please you personally. The designers are paid to create a narrative that is hopefully interesting to enough people that they will support it. They have no collective awareness of who you are or what your ultimate vision for the Realms is. So they didn't make any conscious decisions to "turn their backs on you". You are the one who decided that you didn't like what was being made. So yes, you did turn your back on the setting. But, again, that is fine. You have a right to feel that way. You can't make someone buy something that they don't like...unless your Apple. But I also have the right to my personal opinion that I feel that some of you are far too hard on the setting and it's designers.
The reason I like the Realms is because it's huge and there is a lot going on and there is a very rich and deep history. The opportunity is there for any type of story you can imagine in any time period. Just because they went hog wild on the RSE's for a while doesn't mean that is the direction that they will always take. The opportunity is there for them to ALWAYS change direction and do something different with the narrative if something isn't working. Which is what they are doing with the Sundering. So story wise the Realms is never lost. That is unless people just start ignoring it and it dies due to lack of interest.
That is what I am trying to do here. I'm not trying to insult everyone just to be a jerk. I'm trying to find some way to get more people to raise their voice in support of the Realms rather than bashing it and just walking away. I'd like to see some of you who say that they are done with the Realms to give it another look. Let's see if WoTC makes good on their promise to listen to us. We all know that this setting is beg enough to handle a lot of different narratives. So maybe we can convince them of that fact.
And FYI, the Realms practically started off with an RSE. The first Time of Troubles novel was published in 1989. A mere 2 years after the Old Grey Box was published. So RSE's have been a fact of the Realms since close to the beginning.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 06, 2013 - 3:14PM
#77
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Gods but I wish they'd just divorce the novels from canon and be done with it...
I really hope not. Not only would that be the thing that would drive me away from FR novels (I can read glorified fanfiction for free, thank you!), IMHO the novels being canon is why they are selling so much better than the Eberron novels
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5 months ago ::
Feb 06, 2013 - 4:34PM
#78
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Yeah, I never really got this. I mean I don't play the game. I've actually never played a DnD game set in the Realms. Every time I've had the chance to play the DM had their own setting going. So maybe I'm a bit naive in this, but why is canon so important to a DnD campaign set in the Realms? I've always assumed that the DM is going to mold things the way they want any ways, which has been my experience.
The only place canon really matters is in the novels because that is where the narrative is being told by WoTC and the authors. They need to stay on the same page or else it gets confusing and unappealing. But the DMs of the world can do what ever they want and it will never affect another DM's campaign.
Maybe WoTC needs to change how they approach the way they publish source material.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 06, 2013 - 10:46PM
#79
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Pre-4e, novels as canon could make some discussions around here a fairly unpleasant experience, especially for those who couldn't puzzle out what those novels were about and involved. Now I can't say that was ever an issue for me, since it never seemed that hard to piece together to me, but for a lot of newbies, it was a daunting cliff to find oneself on the edge of. This was especially true for those inexperienced DMs who showed up asking for 'required' reading lists, as if they couldn't run a game without first having read the novels just to know what was going on. Hardly true of course, but they certainly didn't seem aware of that. From what I was seeing, that was a big part of why they used such a lore-light approach to 4e, to discourage just that sort of thinking, and took such a clumsy approach to justify to the gamers that the novels didn't really matter as much as they used to.
To my way of thinking, they'd be better off committing to one approach or the other. Either the novels matter, or they don't. Not that I have any issues with the novels having their own canon, I just wish they'd divorce it from the gaming setting itself, or at least treating it much more abstractly the way the approached it in 2e (as in generic adventurers accomplishing these things, rather than the more specific Company of the XYZ, and all that implies), which I think encouraged DMs to believe that they were free to change the details as they saw fit. Not that they can't anyway, but some folks just have the hardest time getting that through to their brains, as these forums have demonstrated so many times to me.
As to who turned whose back upon whom, it doesn't really matter where you assign the blame, it's ultimately an emotional response, and no one is responsible when it comes down to it. Anything else is just an exercise in linguistic exactitude and semantics.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 06, 2013 - 10:59PM
#80
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2012
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Eh, I dont think think he's really saying love it or leave it. I think that he's saying that if people don't start buying more novels, WotC will stop publishing them. Given his love of realms fiction, he's certainly welcome to blame people who arent buying, because...there is truth there. WotC will not stop publishing if the novels are moving off the shelves. That's pretty much an undeniable fact. They want the Benjamins. If people aren't buying though, ie, the novels are not profitable, they will not continue to publish them.
I'm saying, at this point, I don't really care if they stop publishing them or not. I haven't been reading them anyways, so no big deal to me either way. I guess that's about as clear as I can be.
Thanks Crazyhawk, that does sum up how I feel. of course I would never tell anyone that they HAD to buy the material or else. But those are the facts. And do I resent the hell out of people who turned their backs on the setting? Damn right I do. But that's everyone's choice. I lost Battletech and now I might lose the Realms. I appreciate the honesty about not caring. But I wish more people did care and were a little more open about the Realms.
It’s not me that turn his back on the Realms, it’s the Realms that turn it’s back on me. I like the Realms because it was a huge lands where stories didn’t always connect to each others because they weren’t world-shattering event. Now it’s a post-apocalyptic world that look nothing like the setting I’ve play in for so many years.
Sorry, I don't buy this argument at all....not one bit. WoTC isn't around to please you personally. The designers are paid to create a narrative that is hopefully interesting to enough people that they will support it. They have no collective awareness of who you are or what your ultimate vision for the Realms is. So they didn't make any conscious decisions to "turn their backs on you". You are the one who decided that you didn't like what was being made. So yes, you did turn your back on the setting. But, again, that is fine. You have a right to feel that way. You can't make someone buy something that they don't like...unless your Apple. But I also have the right to my personal opinion that I feel that some of you are far too hard on the setting and it's designers.
The reason I like the Realms is because it's huge and there is a lot going on and there is a very rich and deep history. The opportunity is there for any type of story you can imagine in any time period. Just because they went hog wild on the RSE's for a while doesn't mean that is the direction that they will always take. The opportunity is there for them to ALWAYS change direction and do something different with the narrative if something isn't working. Which is what they are doing with the Sundering. So story wise the Realms is never lost. That is unless people just start ignoring it and it dies due to lack of interest.
That is what I am trying to do here. I'm not trying to insult everyone just to be a jerk. I'm trying to find some way to get more people to raise their voice in support of the Realms rather than bashing it and just walking away. I'd like to see some of you who say that they are done with the Realms to give it another look. Let's see if WoTC makes good on their promise to listen to us. We all know that this setting is beg enough to handle a lot of different narratives. So maybe we can convince them of that fact.
And FYI, the Realms practically started off with an RSE. The first Time of Troubles novel was published in 1989. A mere 2 years after the Old Grey Box was published. So RSE's have been a fact of the Realms since close to the beginning.
Of course WOTC don't have to please me personally. Like I said in my first post, they own the setting, they can do anything they want with it. But I didn't stop buying FR novel because I didn't like the last few that I read, I stop because they now are set in a dak post-apocalyptic world which I don't like.
The Time of Trouble was certainly a big event but, in the end, it doesn't compare to the Spellplague. When it was over, the Realms was still recognizable, most of the gods were there, there wasn't a big purge of all the famous heroes and the various kingdoms were still intact.
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