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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:16PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2013
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Sorry, if I'm going to build a character, I'm going to build the character I have in mind, not be subject to the random whims of the dice. Dice rolling is nothing more than an exercise in frustration and a way to create an imbalanced game and a pointless restriction on possible character concepts.
Sayeth a 41 year old who's been playing since the original Red Box and has never played World of Warcraft, so don't pull that 'younger generation WoW' crap.
The point buy system is far more restrictive. I might and I mean might give it more respect if it was less stringent but as it was in the last version of DnD I'd take the original rolling system over it any day.
Also don't try and nerd out I have the first print of the original 1974 game if we're trying to who's cooler than who over this...
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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:21PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2011
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'I can put my stats how I like them' over 'I'm stuck with what random fate gives me' is more restrictive? Really?
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
And I was merely expressing offense at your ludicrous 'only newbies and WoW players like point buy' bullcrap. Though given the rest of the nonsense you've posted ...
At any rate, you roll them if you want to, I'll point buy if I want to, and we'll both be happy.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:22PM
#23
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The point buy system is far more restrictive. I might and I mean might give it more respect if it was less stringent but as it was in the last version of DnD I'd take the original rolling system over it any day.
Have you ever considered a hybrid system? For example: a point buy system where you roll to determine the number of points you get to spend?
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:23PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2007
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I guess it really comes down to what you really want or need. Most characters should be playable with nothing higher than a 15. If your whole group has the same numbers, then you, as a DM, can modify the game based on their power level.
But if one guy is rocking an 18 in a critical stat and everyone else is 15 or less, the curve is broken, and you can't easily adjust. Mr. 18 is a superstar, and that's that.
Now, people will argue that it's like that in real life, but in a game, I think it's reasonable for a player to expect to have an area where they shine, even if it's not the same area as another character. Maybe you have more to hit and damage, but I have more AC. Or more hit points. Something.
So there's really no reason to say "Joe got lucky and has two 18's, you can't roll higher than a 14, so you're just worse than he is. That's the game, deal."
What I would suggest, actually, is that if your group likes to roll dice, have everyone roll. Figure out who has the best array. Everyone uses that array to assign their ability scores.
"You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -The Doctor, Remembrance of the Daleks
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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:40PM
#25
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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Have you ever considered a hybrid system? For example: a point buy system where you roll to determine the number of points you get to spend?
All that does is make the inequity of luck more obvious.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:42PM
#26
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Have you ever considered a hybrid system? For example: a point buy system where you roll to determine the number of points you get to spend?
All that does is make the inequity of luck more obvious.
Not really. It also creates a minimum level of competency across the full range of attributes. Besides, for people who like the randomness of rolling, I don't think they care about what a fickle tart lady luck is.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:44PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Rolling for stats in game with as much emphasis on stats as Next doesnt seem well... kosher.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:45PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2013
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My brother and I just started playing dnd and when we made our avatars my brother rolled 4 perfect 18's in a row the dm was convenced he was the devil.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:47PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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Point buy to me is more or less a way to gurantee and 18. 4th ed was more or less built around it and PF it is similar.
Its really no big deal except mabe in organised player where a stat arrary is more or less the best option. Latest game we player one of my players offered to GM. He let us pick a stat array, point buy or roll. I was the only one who chose to roll and managed to get double 15's and I went with it. The stats were slightly higher than normal but some of the other player took non humans so they ended up with 16's and 17s. I was joking with the GM that if I rolled low I would just powergame that much harder.
The only rule he had was if you roll you have to keep and if you conveniently kill off your character your replacement has the same stat array. He wasn't to brutal though as if someone got stuck with lower stats he was going to let them pick a more powerful race that was generally restricted to NPCs.
More than one way to balance a game. I'm leaning towards 4d6 drop the lowest in order none of this assign how you like stuff.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 7:48PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I generally suggest rolling on a table which creates indentical stat-buy results.
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