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5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:42AM
#51
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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The only regular spells i know of that may unbalance things as rituals are the cure spells.
If a party wants to dawdle around ten minutes for each Cure [whatever], why not allow it?
I think that makes it very hard to design encounters and requires DMs to come up with arbitrary reasons for PCs to have to not rest. Personally, I'd just exempt healing spells from ritualization... or make all healing spells rituals that cost spell slots. Either way.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:43AM
#52
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
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Jun 23, 2005
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My main concern is that I don't want the wizard to be able to just mark off gold in the middle of the wilderness to cast a ritual.
I agree. Gold makes just as lousy a method of balancing rituals as components do.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:01PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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It makes alot more sense from an in-game perspective. If it takes dragon scales to cast a spell, then it should take dragon scales to cast the spell. It shouldn't take dragon scales when casting long-form, but not take anything when cast short-form.
It's a balancer.
Not an effective one. Evidence: All gold cost spells ever. Extend even to experience cost spells. Still not an effective balancer.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:22PM
#54
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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If a party wants to dawdle around ten minutes for each Cure [whatever], why not allow it?
I think that makes it very hard to design encounters and requires DMs to come up with arbitrary reasons for PCs to have to not rest.
No more so than any other 5MWD cheeseballing.
Hell, it may even lessen the impact of nova/rest by letting the clerics last longer.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:26PM
#55
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- Forum Guide
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Jun 23, 2005
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No more so than any other 5MWD cheeseballing.
So why are we adding more cheeseballs?
Hell, it may even lessen the impact of nova/rest by letting the clerics last longer.
Because hp is also a measure of your staying power for the day. Letting you rest up between every fight destroys the adventuring day as a metric.
If we want to make D&D an encounter-based system, fine. Let's do that. But let's not have conflicting mechanics where hp become an encounter resource and spell recovery a daily resource. It's muddled design of the worst sort.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:47PM
#56
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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It makes alot more sense from an in-game perspective. If it takes dragon scales to cast a spell, then it should take dragon scales to cast the spell. It shouldn't take dragon scales when casting long-form, but not take anything when cast short-form.
It's a balancer.
Not an effective one. Evidence: All gold cost spells ever. Extend even to experience cost spells. Still not an effective balancer.
I almost never cast wish in 3e. 5k experience was too great a cost for me to use if often.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:54PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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You just need more creative wishes 
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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5 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:56PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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You just need more creative wishes
Heh. Maybe. 
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5 months ago ::
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:19PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2005
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How is it bloat? There's just a general rule, all spells are rituals, 10 mintues per level.
Its bloat when the devs lose the incentive to create something better.
And how does it cheapen things? Rituals are even more versitile, now that you can spend 10 minutes to blast 2 coconuts out of a tree. Or 30 minutes to light a house on fire. There's more value, not less.
cheapens magic as shooting a coconut out of a tree would cheapen gun violence.
I mean sure, a fighter could climb the tree, and a rogue could throw a dagger, and both could just use flint. But a wizard should uses magic. Even if it takes him 3x as long.
No the wizard should climb the tree or pay someone. A certain more adept caster might levitate/fly and with a barrel and come down with a week’s worth. Shooting one coconut? No! I don’t ever want to see the D&D mage go Bizzard. You can call me a traditionalist on that front. The only regular spells i know of that may unbalance things as rituals are the cure spells. And you put an exception for those (heals upto X amount).
What other balance issue would there be?
The ‘Bin Laden compound’ scenario. You can use a ritual to start a surprise attack. Like I said the real issue is that the vast majority will be obsolete. Balance isnt just a matter of power. I would rather have a shorter list where people have to think about what they might invest components in.
When you allow every spell to be cast as a ritual is likely that we wont even see components since that would take too much time thus components will be tied to currency which is already intentionally unbalanced to make AC work. Now I can learn how to make plate sell it for a ridiculous amount of gold and cast every ritual. Next would make a terrible video game.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:35PM
#60
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How is it bloat? There's just a general rule, all spells are rituals, 10 mintues per level.
Its bloat when the devs lose the incentive to create something better.
You really think the 30 minutes (tops) it takes to add that in will make that much of a difference on their energy?
cheapens magic as shooting a coconut out of a tree would cheapen gun violence.
I don't see that as cheapening at all.
No the wizard should climb the tree or pay someone. A certain more adept caster might levitate/fly and with a barrel and come down with a week’s worth. Shooting one coconut? No! I don’t ever want to see the D&D mage go Bizzard. You can call me a traditionalist on that front.
Using Blizzard for a frozen margarita sounds like a good idea to me.
Yet another reason to allow rituals.
The ‘Bin Laden compound’ scenario. You can use a ritual to start a surprise attack.
No more then aiming 20 x-bows at a door and a bit of string to would be.
Plus, they would be flashy, loud, and easily interuptable. Not a stealth thing.
Like I said the real issue is that the vast majority will be obsolete. Balance isnt just a matter of power. I would rather have a shorter list where people have to think about what they might invest components in.
When you allow every spell to be cast as a ritual is likely that we wont even see components since that would take too much time thus components will be tied to currency which is already intentionally unbalanced to make AC work. Now I can learn how to make plate sell it for a ridiculous amount of gold and cast every ritual. Next would make a terrible video game.
Most are not going to be used. Most would not have components. I don't see the issue with either thing. If you want a sepcial spell that uses exotic components to do special things, that's not hindered at all.
The only possible pit fall i see is that it may give wizards a bit too much utility compaired to other classes (and then, i would suggest buffing other classes).
Bottom line: Rituals enable creativly. If you think that's a bad thing, then we'll just have to disagree.
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Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
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