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5 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 12:53PM
#21
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lolwut? The build on DPR Kings uses 6 (7 after milestone) DB per turn and has about 90% of its damage come from an unlimited zone. Check it out! Please link what you're talking about.
That build doesn't work as described because the author didn't read the power that's being used to generate Vuln. Waiting until turn 3 in order to deal nigh-infinite damage may as well have a KPR of 0. Non-infinite at level 30 that uses an incorrect reading of a power and an obvious non-RAI damage zone? Yeah, don't link that crap.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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5 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 3:36PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2010
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The vuln makes it better, but the zone works without it. Beyond that, I was making fun of the claim that DB was the best in the game (your claim at that). The build linked is the ONLY one on the DPR Kings list that is even in the top 5 (the next DB build is #7 at lvl 30).
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5 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 5:47PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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The vuln makes it better, but the zone works without it. Beyond that, I was making fun of the claim that DB was the best in the game (your claim at that). The build linked is the ONLY one on the DPR Kings list that is even in the top 5 (the next DB build is #7 at lvl 30).
Play with a properly piloted breather just once. Do it in paragon preferably. See if you still think it isn't so strong.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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5 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 9:29PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2011
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lolwut? The build on DPR Kings uses 6 (7 after milestone) DB per turn and has about 90% of its damage come from an unlimited zone. Check it out! Please link what you're talking about.
That build doesn't work as described because the author didn't read the power that's being used to generate Vuln. Waiting until turn 3 in order to deal nigh-infinite damage may as well have a KPR of 0. Non-infinite at level 30 that uses an incorrect reading of a power and an obvious non-RAI damage zone? Yeah, don't link that crap.
Huh? I don't think you're reading it right... what's wrong with Doom of Chaos (not that it's vital to the concept anyway)? And the damage on turn 1 is already enough to kill most things, but then it takes till turn 2 (not turn 3) to reach 100%. Considering the turn 1 damage is higher than 99% of other builds, I don't think this is a problem.
There are certainly some issues to overcome if you wanted to use it in practical play, but it should never be used in practical play anyway. And the specific objections you raised are just incorrect.
The vuln makes it better, but the zone works without it. Beyond that, I was making fun of the claim that DB was the best in the game (your claim at that). The build linked is the ONLY one on the DPR Kings list that is even in the top 5 (the next DB build is #7 at lvl 30).
DPR Kings doesn't count for much in terms of practical application, it's much more for theoretical optimization, *especially* if you're looking at the level 30 builds, many of which are just plain unplayable before then. So don't use it as the final word in what is/isn't strong.
Also, going by the number of builds listed in DPR Kings introduces all kinds of biases so that it's reaaaaaally not a good measure for how effective something is.
I am okay with you saying my argument is stupid, or commits the munchkin fallacy, or any other bad thing you want. Particularly if you give a reason/explanation for it.
However, I will ignore any post that calls me stupid, or a munchkin, or what have you. Not because it bothers me; I've just found that people only start name-calling when that's the best argument they have left.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 10:46PM
#25
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Actually, it's ∞% lower than the top builds, but Borg won't list anything that deals infinite or indeterminable non-infinite damage, even if they're done without such outright RAI violations as non-turn-capped zones.
I'll admit Doom of Chaos works on turn 2 if you're claiming that you intentionally miss to gain the effect but not the ongoing, but I am under the assumption that Borg doesn't allow that tactic unless you have a legitimate claim to being able to (ie. it's a Wis-based attack on a Sorc). Otherwise, your turn 1 you probably hit, their turn 1 they gain vuln 10 psychic at the start and make a saving throw vs ongoing, your turn 2 -------, their turn 2 they gain vuln 10 psychic if they failed their saving throw otherwise they gain vuln 10 fire, your turn 3 if they are now vuln fire they get blown uplol otherwise you keep sitting on your thumbs only doing 90 DPR or whatever. Still a powerful build, still based on 2 assumptions that I've never seen in effect.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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5 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 11:21PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2011
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True, I meant to mention that, there are a few infinite damage builds out there still.
My build has a CHA of 10 at level 30. So yeah, the idea is that you are deliberately missing (and I even make a note that there are Dice of Auspicious Fortune included specifically to ensure the first attack doesn't get a natural 20).
Also, you seem to be missing how minor Doom of Chaos is anyway. It causes them to take twice as much damage as they otherwise would; so without it, the build is at 7.3 KPR. Still kills everything immediately.
If you look at the spreadsheet that has the damage calcs, you will notice that the *round 1* DPR is just under 2000. If we remove Doom of Chaos, then it's just under 1000, and this can be done at-will, no setup, to everything in a 5x5 box. The other stuff (vulnerability and assuming they're in the same spot each round) just takes it from 1000 DPR to 4500 DPR, which is a large difference, but they are both stupidly big numbers (and it's AoE!).
I am okay with you saying my argument is stupid, or commits the munchkin fallacy, or any other bad thing you want. Particularly if you give a reason/explanation for it.
However, I will ignore any post that calls me stupid, or a munchkin, or what have you. Not because it bothers me; I've just found that people only start name-calling when that's the best argument they have left.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 7:17AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2010
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@ TWTN Your damage calcs have 4*Number of zones built into the damage. If instead you wrote your normal damage as 52+3*Zone dmg (1 tap on each of your turns, and 1 on theirs) then you have a 6(7) attack build that does ~110 damage per attack. Remove the Revanant cheese and it's only 3(4) attacks. I'm not trying to downplay your build, just use it as an example of clearly broken mechanics making another mechanic seem more powerful than it is.
@martyr That's exactly what I intend to do, but I'll do it when I can just start at paragon.
I ended up with a Dragonborn Barb|Cleric MC Fighter/Morninglord/Radiant One for this campaign. Should have a fun daily nova and be pretty self suficient as well as bring the radiant vuln for everyone to dip into. Since I said in the OP that this was actually going to be played I didn't want it to be too ridiculous. A bit of a one-trick pony that does good enough damage and is self sufficient.
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