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 Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Rules Q&A Double Move Question.
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 4 months ago  ::  Jan 12, 2013 - 1:27PM #31 Mand12 Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010 Posts: 16,931 Jan 12, 2013 -- 10:20AM, Pentagram wrote:Double moving doesn't really double your speed anywayYes it does.  Read the text.Your example of an ally 6 squares ahead blocking you is completely wrong.  Again, read the text. D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 4 months ago  ::  Jan 12, 2013 - 5:43PM #32 Pentagram Date Joined: Sep 12, 2004 Posts: 245 Jan 12, 2013 -- 1:27PM, Mand12 wrote:Jan 12, 2013 -- 10:20AM, Pentagram wrote:Double moving doesn't really double your speed anywayYes it does.  Read the text.Your example of an ally 6 squares ahead blocking you is completely wrong.  Again, read the text.It says to add the speeds of the two move actions to determine how far you can move. It doesn't say to double your speed to determine your new speed. Double moving doesn't change your speed any more than Run does. It simply reinforces the concept of fluid movement. It should be clear that "the speeds of the move actions" refer to your movement allowance for a given move action, not your actual speed. Otherwise, how far would you move with a double shift or a double run, respectively?My example was referring to what would happen should you NOT be able to use double moving while walking (given a speed 6). An ally 6 squares ahead WOULD block your progress through the corridor as you would have to stop one square short while having allies in all other squares except 6 and 12 would do nothing to hinder you.Anyway, RAW ain't entirely clear on whether the listed move actions are the only ones usable ones for a double move (and I can't compare with Rules Compendium as it unavailable to me for the momemnt) or simply examples of usable move actions (the other three generic ones, Escape, Stand Up, and Squeeze having no particular benefit from a double move). If the list isn't exhaustive, Dragon Wings should be able to get you twice your speed before landing, rather than forcing you to land in the middle. Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 4 months ago  ::  Jan 12, 2013 - 6:55PM #33 Ghost007 Date Joined: Dec 2, 2012 Posts: 246 Jan 11, 2013 -- 1:17PM, mvincent wrote:Jan 11, 2013 -- 1:06PM, Mand12 wrote: it says 'fly your speed.'  Your speed for the double move is 12, not 6. Double move doesn't double your 'speed' stat(s): (PHB p.284) "When you double move, add the speeds of the two move actions together and then move".  That interpretation seems like it could break some powers and abilities that are based on speed...Dragon Wings Scion of Arkhosia Utility 12Fully formed dragon wings protrude from your back, giving you the ability to fly.At-WillMove Action PersonalEffect: You fly a number of squares equal to your speed. You must land at the end of this movement.I think I agree with Mvincent.   "...fly a number of squares equal to your speed (which is set)...must land at the end of this movement."  So in order to "run" with this At Will, you fly, land, fly, land.DETERMINING SPEEDDetermine your speed as follows:✦ Start with your race’s speed.✦ Take your armor’s speed penalty, if applicable.✦ Add any bonuses that apply.DOUBLE MOVE✦ Same Move Action: To double move, you have to take the same move action twice in a row on the same turn.✦ One Speed: When you double move, add the speeds of the two move actions together and then move.✦ Occupied Squares: When you double move, your first move action can end in an ally’s space, because you’re not stopping. Your second move action can’t end in an ally’s space, as normal.Game mechanic wise, it prevents Arkhosia to use this "flight" to fly vertical or horizontal 2x speed w/out landing in between.  Perhaps that was the intent.  Kinda bummer if there is a firey chasm Arkhosia want to fly over. Although "One Speed" definition may mean when using the At Will  to "run", your speed is double.  Perhaps "Add any bonuses that apply" may mean exactly that bonus, and "Same Move Action" means you are not doing 2x 1 Move action (which requires you to land), but "Double Move" itself is the 1 move action, in which case flying 2xspeed and landing makes sense, but then Occupied Square description seem to imply it's two move action without stopping.  Individual DM make the call!  Personally I would allow it at 16th level since they get overland flight of 12 w/out requirement to land, but pre 16, they got to land in between the double move. Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 4 months ago  ::  Jan 13, 2013 - 8:57AM #34 Vindic Date Joined: Apr 2, 2010 Posts: 5 Thanks everyone for all the responses! Here is what I got back from Customer Service:Thanks for writing in. In this case, the interaction between that power and the rules for Double Move are not explicitly clear, so ultimately it is up to the DM to decide whether the character would have to land in between the two parts of the double move. I apologize that we do not have a more definite answer for you on this matter. I hope this information helps! If you have further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us again.Thanks again! Vin~ Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 4 months ago  ::  Jan 13, 2013 - 1:16PM #35 Mand12 Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010 Posts: 16,931 It should be noted that Customer Service answers are awful, and not to be trusted.  Our answers are better. D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 4 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 4:03PM #36 Pentagram Date Joined: Sep 12, 2004 Posts: 245 Jan 13, 2013 -- 1:16PM, Mand12 wrote:It should be noted that Customer Service answers are awful, and not to be trusted.  Our answers are better.That should be a sticky... Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 4 months ago  ::  Jan 15, 2013 - 3:25PM #37 Alcestis Date Joined: Oct 7, 2009 Posts: 7,877 Jan 12, 2013 -- 8:19AM, Mand12 wrote:Are you really saying that using a power that requires a move action is not a move action?I am really saying that, in the movement section of the rules, Move Actions are defined as Shift, Walk, Run, Crawl, in an iterative list, two pages before the double-move rules, which call out that you can use a given Move Action twice and then re-iterates that exact same list as options to use two of. Context matters, if you are reading a section of the rules that used a term a certain way, it is reasonable to assume the term was intended to be read that way for the section of the rules. There are actually quite a few examples in the RC of that. But really, the double-move rules are pretty clear. It says two walks, two shifts, two crawls, or two runs. That isn't an open-ended list. Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 4 months ago  ::  Jan 15, 2013 - 3:31PM #38 Mand12 Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010 Posts: 16,931 If using a power that requires spending a move action is not a Move Action, what is it?  Doesn't this logic conflict with the "use a power as a standard action" rulings that other elements use? D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 4 months ago  ::  Jan 15, 2013 - 3:35PM #39 Alcestis Date Joined: Oct 7, 2009 Posts: 7,877 Jan 15, 2013 -- 3:31PM, Mand12 wrote:If using a power that requires spending a move action is not a Move Action, what is it?  Doesn't this logic conflict with the "use a power as a standard action" rulings that other elements use?You used a move action to use a power that requires you to use a move action, but you didn't take a Move Action. Probably should be. The list under double-move is iterative, it lists the options, with no possibility of their being additional options. It is pretty clear that was the intent, because two pages earlier those exact actions are listed as the default move actions. That's all. No, not especially. If you took the Walk move action as a Standard, it wouldn't change that you took the Walk move action. Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply? 4 months ago  ::  Jan 15, 2013 - 3:37PM #40 Mand12 Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010 Posts: 16,931 I'm not clear at all where you get the idea that it's an exclusive list.  Isn't "Use a Power" in the general list of 'actions' ?PHB 292: Use a Power:  Action VariesCompare with:Shift:  Move ActionSame syntax, same presentation.  You mentioned context - here is the context. D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition Quick Reply Cancel Quote message in reply?
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 Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Rules Q&A Double Move Question.
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