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5 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 8:40AM
#171
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2001
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But here we aren't refering to a player who is intent on a particular target from the start, since he could have simply called for that target. We are talking about a player who simply wants to bypass the need for any trigger conditions completely, as in "I will shoot at .... something ... sometime .... some reason .... meh, whatever ..." and then set the condition after the fact. Or have the final trigger condition not even closely resemble the original condition at all in the event the DM insists he is more specific.
The scenario exists theoretically, but in practice it's either impossible if they don't define at least some kind of triggering condition (because it never triggers), or they just end up being unnecessarily broad when they already know the kind of thing at which they want to shoot.
For example, if they just say "I shoot when I see something" they're already likely to have something in mind (like a valid enemy) , so it comes back to whatever the DM wants to allow. And if the DM ends up being fine with turning a readied action into a single-action restricted delay, then more power to them. It's not like you can ready outside of combat, and waiting around during combat gives your enemies a chance to act.
I don't think many DMs are likely to allow a "shoot at anything" option, but it's technically a valid possibility and I have yet to come up with a situation where it seems truly abusive. What would your idea be of a particularly unfair advantage that could be gained?
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:41AM
#172
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For example, if they just say "I shoot when I see something" they're already likely to have something in mind (like a valid enemy) , so it comes back to whatever the DM wants to allow.
Assuming they want a valid enemy allowing them to keep the trigger after the skip an invalid enemy (such as a friend, or enemy they couldn't hit due to circumstances. And I think many DMs would agree, but keep in mind that we are talking about an invalid trigger. Technically it's the trigger, but it really isn't a valid one.
I will agree that the DM should be reasonably fair in determining what would be a valid trigger.
"I shoot the first enemy I see" shouldn't be triggered by someone at 5 times the range of their bow, peeking out of some bushes with cover and concealment. Though it is technically the trigger it is an impossible shot. Skip it and keep the trigger shouldn't be an issue, correct.
However a friend or invalid target is different then say "I shoot the first Orc Warrior to charge through the door" and an Orc Warrior comes charging through the door, I think it is too plate for the PC to be wieghing the pros and cons of shooting it and going "hmm it's an Orc Warrior alright, but what does it look like? Lots of scars to show it's expereinced in battle? any tatoos or tribal markings? Ok so it does have a tatoo, does it look tribal? Yes? ok if it's tribal it must be in a tribe with other orc warriors and if they mark themselves with tribal tatoos then I am guessing they must have leaders.....You know what I think I am going to wait for his leader to come through the door..."
That is a change of conditions, and there is no allowance for it in the rules.
My contention here is that there is a difference between skipping an invalid trigger and outright changing the conditions.
I don't think many DMs are likely to allow a "shoot at anything" option, but it's technically a valid possibility and I have yet to come up with a situation where it seems truly abusive. What would your idea be of a particularly unfair advantage that could be gained?
That was the main response I had to Oma, that the DM will quite likely disallow conditions that are too vague or open on the basis of needing to specify the conditions in advance, and should make a fair ruling on what is allowable. To which he shouted THE DM IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!! no doubt frothing at the mouth while doing so.
My idea of what would be a fair ruling on how general a condition should be, is that the DM should reasonably be able to tell that it is the trigger.
The unfair advantage that I can think of would be Oma's idea of readying to counter "any spells" in response to a large number of spell casters (his own party and 3 or 4 enemies, all casting spells) in a widespread area, none standing near the other, while in general melee, to make a case by case decision on what spell would be the best to counter. The conditions are both too general as well as being an unreasonable expectation of what one can be ready to react to in an instant.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:51PM
#173
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Perhaps it is best if we all just drop this topic and agree that it is up to the DM to determine what can be used as a "trigger" for ready and what the consequences for ignoring that trigger will be. I know I would want a relatively specific trigger and if that trigger happens you probably should be prepared to take your action because unless it is obvious to me that it isn't something you'd do I'm either going to have you give up your Readied Action or make it moderately difficult to maintain it. Other DMs may not care what you set up for a trigger and then let you skip any that come up until you want to act; definitely not my style but I guess it is within the rules.
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