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Hello,

So during our D&D campaign last week we had adventurer join us and he chose a barbarian.

He used Brutal Slam on an enemy that had the annoying habit of exploding into a cloud of blinding dust when it was killed.

Well I am looking for a ruling on Brutal Slam's wording.

"Hit: 2W + S mod, and you push the target 2 squares and knock it prone. Then one enemy adjacent to the target takes 1d8 + S mod damage." 

The issue: The target was killed with the initial impact of the attack and burst into that annoying cloud. How I interpret this manuever is that the "and" dictates that the two events happen simultaneously and his blinding dust effect still happens but after its been knocked back 2 squares. 

Our DM is new, had to take over for our original and this is all of our 1st campaign. 

What I am looking for is an answer to the "and" effect here. Or if the dust cloud effect supercedes in this instance.

My biggest confusion comes from the powers that have a hit effect of damage, "Then" something else happens. 

anything helps

usually i can find the answer without asking but to no avail here. 

Thanks


 

You execute the hit line. After the Hit: line is done, things that reacted to the hit line (or something in the Hit: line) can happen.

Jan 9, 2013 -- 3:26PM, Alcestis wrote:

You execute the hit line. After the Hit: line is done, things that reacted to the hit line (or something in the Hit: line) can happen.

so what you're saying Alcestis is that in this case the exploding into a cloud of blinding dust would happen after the target was pushed 2 and knocked prone ?

Jan 9, 2013 -- 4:06PM, Noctaem wrote:

Jan 9, 2013 -- 3:26PM, Alcestis wrote:

You execute the hit line. After the Hit: line is done, things that reacted to the hit line (or something in the Hit: line) can happen.

so what you're saying Alcestis is that in this case the exploding into a cloud of blinding dust would happen after the target was pushed 2 and knocked prone ?

Correct.

if the explosion thing was instead an interrupt upon being reduced to 0 hit points would it still only happen after the push and prone ?

Jan 9, 2013 -- 3:26PM, Alcestis wrote:

You execute the hit line. After the Hit: line is done, things that reacted to the hit line (or something in the Hit: line) can happen.

This is not completely true, as if there are things that happen within the hit line that include movement, reactions can happen after each square of movement, before the rest of the hit line is resolved.

Jan 9, 2013 -- 4:09PM, Noctaem wrote:

if the explosion thing was instead an interrupt upon being reduced to 0 hit points would it still only happen after the push and prone ?

No, it would resolve before any of the Hit line effects.

Jan 9, 2013 -- 4:13PM, Mand12 wrote:

Jan 9, 2013 -- 4:09PM, Noctaem wrote:

if the explosion thing was instead an interrupt upon being reduced to 0 hit points would it still only happen after the push and prone ?

No, it would resolve before any of the Hit line effects.

ty

So final conclusion is.

If it is an immediate reaction to death then it woud resolve before being pushed.

But if it is simply the way it dies then would it still be pushed back the two squares? 

no....

Immediate reaction -> explosion goes off after the push and prone

Immediate interrupt -> explosion goes off before the push and prone 

Jan 9, 2013 -- 9:27PM, Noctaem wrote:

no....

Immediate reaction -> explosion goes off after the push and prone

Immediate interrupt -> explosion goes off before the push and prone 

Thanks, that was what I was looking for. 

Unfortunately the Monster manual doesn't show if it is a reaction or interrupt 

CKilling Dark (when reduced to 0 hit points)
Close burst 1; targets enemies; each target is blinded (save ends).
When slain, a dark creeper explodes in a spout of darkness.

Well thanks for all the help, that at least gives me a leg to stand on if he decides to pull something like that again.  

 

It means Killing Dark is triggered using no action, which resolve as a reaction, as per Other Triggered Effects.

RC 197 Other Triggerred Effects: If an effect has a Trigger and is neither an Immediate Action nor an Opportunity Action, assume that it behaves like an immediate Reaction, waiting for its Trigger to resolves. However, ignore this guideline when the effect has to interrupt its Trigger to function. 

Jan 9, 2013 -- 10:10PM, Xanetsu wrote:

Unfortunately the Monster manual doesn't show if it is a reaction or interrupt 

CKilling Dark (when reduced to 0 hit points)
Close burst 1; targets enemies; each target is blinded (save ends).
When slain, a dark creeper explodes in a spout of darkness.

Well thanks for all the help, that at least gives me a leg to stand on if he decides to pull something like that again.  

 

Jan 9, 2013 -- 10:13PM, Plaguescarred wrote:

It means Killing Dark is triggered using no action, which resolve as a reaction, as per Other Triggered Effects.

RC 197 Other Triggerred Effects: If an effect has a Trigger and is neither an Immediate Action nor an Opportunity Action, assume that it behaves like an immediate Reaction, waiting for its Trigger to resolves. However, ignore this guideline when the effect has to interrupt its Trigger to function. 

In short: Push then Pop.

Well doesn't that just bring back some memories of the 90s...

Suffocation is definitely the best brutal slam band, but some people really like Devourment and Vomit Remnants. To each his own, I guess.

The wording of that power on the most recent Dark Creeper-type creatures is more specific:

--

Killing Dark

Trigger: The hex knight drops to 0 hit points.

Effect (No Action): Each enemy adjacent to the hex knight is blinded until the end of his or her next turn.

--

AFAIK a "no action" power would still function like an immediate reaction in this case (since it doesn't actually need to interrupt in order to work).