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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 8:15PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2005
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I would place the Deck of Game Ending in the top slot. It's cool; it's fun; and it destroys campaigns.
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Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 9:57PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
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Hey, you can build entire quests around the Girdle. They won't be taken seriously, mind you, but they can be amusing.
Where as I cannot recall a single story of a single instance where the Helm of Opposite Alignment worked to create an enjoyable game...
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
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6 months ago ::
Jan 13, 2013 - 10:02PM
#43
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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Where as I cannot recall a single story of a single instance where the Helm of Opposite Alignment worked to create an enjoyable game...
I can think of one, but it involved using a Helm of Opposite Alignment on a lich to bypass the associated bossfight.
...well, also a few more - each of which is another example of a party using it on NPCs to screw up a campaign as much as possible.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 6:34AM
#44
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Or the good old curse that radically changes the person's allignment, there were some interesting combinations.
I really wouldn't want this curse in the game for two reasons.
1. It's pretty much forcing you to change how you roleplay, usually without the player's say in it. That's bad.
2. The players will ignore it and continue roleplaying however they were earlier thus bringing their alignment back where it should be. Making said curse pointless.
I agree here, I think these things are only constructive if they are temperary devices. ie the Helm of Opposite Allignment can be removed with a curse, restoring the orriginal allignment. Generally these things only effect a single member of the party so they can be restored with a break enchantment or atonement easily enough. For the roleplaying aspect (forcing them to roleplay an allignment they didn't choose) there are plenty of enchantments that force PCs to do just that, Charm, Dominate Person etc and as for the genre, one of the good guys being under the spell/influence like this is a common enough theme.
I should point out that these things are really traps that the players stumble into carelessly.
The Deck of Many Things, is a cool concept, but the effects are far too extreme and unbalanced, I woudl prefer a toned down deck. But I will point out that drawing from the Deck of Many Things is a choice by a player so the allignment change card should be seen as no suprise
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6 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 6:59AM
#45
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Hey, you can build entire quests around the Girdle. They won't be taken seriously, mind you, but they can be amusing.
Where as I cannot recall a single story of a single instance where the Helm of Opposite Alignment worked to create an enjoyable game...
I used the Helm of Opposite Allignment once with what they thought to be the main villian wearing it. The Helm was the parties first clue (an plot hook)that there was someone else behind the scenes manipulating a war. This is using the common theme of a king (or kings) being manipulated via enchantments.
I've also had a game where a extreme allignment curse (stupid cards) was inflicted upon a Paladin, and the new Blackguard player reveled in keeping the change in allignment (and class) a secret from the party. And a good many players will enjoy roleplaying a dramatic or tragic change in their character.
But I digress, such a forcibly change their allignment should be temperary if it isn't self inflicted (ie being dumb enough to use a Deck of Many Things) or the player chooses to continue with the change.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 7:09AM
#46
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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For the roleplaying aspect (forcing them to roleplay an allignment they didn't choose) there are plenty of enchantments that force PCs to do just that, Charm, Dominate Person etc and as for the genre, one of the good guys being under the spell/influence like this is a common enough theme.
Those all require a saving throw/attack vs Will however and fail if it doesn't take. Plus anything that happens during Charm/Dominate has zero effect on your alignment IIRC.
That said, Charm/Dominate is something you shouldn't introduce for out of combat purposes unless your party will be fine with it. In combat's fine ebcause it's usually done just to have them attack someone else for a turn or two.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 7:54AM
#47
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The Helm generally requires a degree of carelessness on the part of the players to put on cursed items like this. After they have ignored clues in the helm's design and thrown caution to the wind in putting it on without identifying it first, well then...
Even so a dramatic change in allignment is generally noticable by the party (it only targets the one person after all) so it doesn't take long before a break enchantment, or atone spell can be applied.
The issue with such items I think is if they are termperary, if there isn't a means readily available to undue the change and restore the character in full then the items should be left out of the game.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:16AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
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I'm noticing a pattern with these stories: The Helm is used on NPCs. So it's only affecting individuals already under the DM's control, so only the DM has to be concerned with their alignment. So there's no player essentially being told they can't play the character they created.
With the exception of that one Paladin, but that's one exception...
The answer is clear: If you're ever in a boss fight against a character the DM has described wearing a helmet, if the rules allow it, called shot to the helmet.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
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6 months ago ::
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:52AM
#49
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In older editions where some classes/abilities have allignment requirements, or restrictions, or access to certain domains/feats etc. Mundane requirements for the most part unless it required one to be evil which might not be allowable in a game. The Paladin was the only class really notably effected because of his additional Code of Conduct.
On a side note, Hackmaster (at least the orginal system), a system built using Advanced Dungons and Dragons not only had the honor system to supposedly force certian behavior still have mechanics in the system to allow players to roleplay different from thier alignment as to not get punished by those mechanics.
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